Caliber for 100-300 yd Deer or Elk Newb

Tell me I'm crazy, but I've been shooting .243 Win a lot lately and expected my .270 Win to hit me considerably harder, but it didn't seem much different than either the T3 Lite, or Remington 700 in .243. The difference in rifle weight is about a pound. (I realize that stock design is also a factor in felt recoil.)

The recoil pad is about the same on both Remington rifles, but the Tikka has a thinner pad, made of harder rubber.

Could the initial pressure spike curve be somewhat flatter in a longer case than a shorter one with nearly the same bullet weight and muzzle energy?
 
For a given stock shape and barreled action, recoil force-time curves will vary somewhat depending on the pressure curve in the barrel along with the bullet weight.

The 12-pound Rigby .470 Nitro Express' left barrel I shot had a huge amount of force that seemed to last a while and just keep pushing my forward-leaned over body past an upright position with its 500-gr. bullet.

Compared that same day to my 9-pound standard Win 70 in .270 Win with 130's I shot which was quicker and faster with less force, that made it prefereable to shoot for fun.

The Rigby's owner said he never noticed its recoil with very big animals bearing down on him.
 
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People like to say "shot placement is key", which is true, but as you reduce the power you are shooting with, you also reduce the size of the target area you can shoot and make a clean kill. For this reason I would avoid marginal calibers, especially as a new hunter.

"Low recoil" is very subjective, but quite honestly, I would practice with a sufficiently adequate caliber until the recoil doesn't bother you. While bolt guns are usually first choice, you'll also find that gas operated semi-autos have much more tolerale recoil than bolt guns in the same caliber, so this might be an option depending on your state and the hutning laws there.

You certainly have a lot more wiggle room in deer calibers, but when you head out for elk, its better to be on the heavier side.
 
People like to say "shot placement is key", which is true, but as you reduce the power you are shooting with, you also reduce the size of the target area you can shoot and make a clean kill. For this reason I would avoid marginal calibers, especially as a new hunter.
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An Elk's lung size doesn't change depending on what cartridge is used

I think the best answer for the OP's question is a 7mm08, since it's quite capable of killing an Elk as far as most people can hit one, and will have less recoil than a 270 or 30-06

Without reloading, the 7 X 57 is limited in loadings
 
30.06 is an excellent choice for most any elk or deer. If you're really worried about recoil, get a shoulder pad and / or muzzle brake.
 
A 30-06 isn't a bad choice, and recoil is tolerable for most people. But, if you want good performance and less recoil a 308 has about 25% less recoil than 30-06, and shoots the same bullet weights 100-150 fps slower. With the best loads a 30-06 will take you to 400-500 yards on deer or elk. A 308 will do the same thing, from 50 yards closer. A 308 is will probably exceed the skills of most shooters.

Nothing at all wrong with a 7-08 either, but I just like 308 better and ammo is cheaper and easier to find.

If you rule out elk a 260 or 243 will do just fine for deer. And they could be used for elk. The 243 is borderline, the 260 less so.
 
If recoil is a concern, then a heavier gun, a good recoil pad, shooting vest or jacket and possibly inertial recoil reducing systems are options.

If a lighter caliber is what you want then I'd suggest a 6.5mm such as the Swede.
 
.30-06 using Federal Fusion ammo in a rifle/set up that weighs 8-9 lbs. The recoil is fairly light and with bullet choices from 150 - 180 grain you are set for deer/elk at the ranges you listed.
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Yeah, it's really hard to top that advice for your parameters with easy to find ammo.

But here's a few other top contenders to consider, roughly in order for my money:

1. .270 Win
2. .280 Rem
3. 7mm-08
4. .308 Win
5. 6.5x55 (this is now common in stores - at least it's in Academy and BassPro - no less than 3 offerings in Academy)
6. .260 Rem

FWIW, I consider .30-'06 to be my elk/moose and similar chambering, and my .280 Rem to be my "everything else" from speed goat to monster mulie & feral boar chambering. If I had to pick just one, I'd go with .280 rem and use a premium bonded or gilding metal 140 for everything.
 
jmr40, no, I just don't think that that is true, 25% less recoil of a .308 vs. .30-'06.

Comparing apples to apples, 8.0 lb rifles, 165 gr loadings - the .30-06 has recoil energy of 20.1 ft-lbs, to the .308s has 17.5. That's 12.9% less, not 25% (i.e. only about 1/2 of the claimed recoil reduction).

If you compare recoil velocity, it's 12.7 in the .30-06, to the .308s 11.9, a reduction of 6.3% in recoil velocity.

But the energy being the better overall number to compare, it's right at 13% reduction. Quite significant, yes, but just not one-fourth.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
 
When considering the .308 vs the 30-06, About three or four years ago I ran some 180 gr. Winchester Power Point ammo in .308 and 30-06 over my chronograph. Rifles use were a Winchester M70 for the .308 and a J.C. Higgins M50 Mauser for the 30-06. Velocity for the .308 was right at2610 Average and the 30-06 was 2630 FPS. Big whoop difference but not the 2700 FPS advertised for the 06. I killed stuff for years when I used factory ammo and never had a problem. In fact, the only rifle that did give 2700 FPS was a 26" barreled Ruger #1B.
Paul B.
 
For one cartridge 200-300 Yds. My top choice would be 308 in a 700 Rem. with Deer 150 or 168Gr. Ballistic Tip and for Elk 168 gr. Barns tip. Put a 2-7 Leupold on it and you will be set.

Or purchase a 257 Roberts with a 120gr for Deer and for Elk you will be getting a kicker if you go larger than 308. So if you don't want a kicker don't buy a Elk gun until you go elk hunting.

If you want to have fun loading for Deer pickup a 700 Rem. in 300 Blackout.:rolleyes:
 
Having shot Garands in both .30-06 and .308 the same morning with their respective match ammo shooting the same bullet out at equal pressure and only 90 fps difference in muzzle velocity and 6 grains difference of the same powder, I was hard pressed to notice any recoil or noise difference. It is insignificant.

Technically speaking, with identical rifles and bullets except for cartridge, the .308 will be easier to shoot accurately than the .30-06. It'll move a tiny bit less in recoil while the bullet goes through the barrel. 10 to 12 percent difference is not significant for hunting.
 
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I have hunted elk several times and have taken one small 5 X 5 and one large 5 X 5. I used my .300 Win Mag because my next most powerful rifle was a .270 Win. Although I don't believe buying the .300 Win Mag was a waste of money, I am convinced it wasn't necessary for elk hunting. A .308, .270, .280 and .30-06 with premium bullets such as a Nosler Partition are certainly adequate for any elk. And, of course, it is easier to shoot each of these cartridges more accurately than a .300 Win Mag simply because of the lower recoil. If I had known 30 or 40 years ago what I know today I would have had a fabulous custom .280 for all big game in the lower 48. :rolleyes: Edit: I have always hunted with my own reloaded cartridges: RCBS; once or twice fired cases; neck-sized; and each chambered once before hunting.
 
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A 308 is not a bad choice, really. For your needs, I would choose almost any 150 grain soft point for deer and go to work.
If Elk is on the menu, I would go with something in a premium bullet-say something along the lines of Federals 308 E which is a 165 grain Nosler Partition.

All of the cartridges mentioned will pretty much do the job, so look around your area and see what is stocked on the shelves-if you don't reload, that is going to have a lot of influence on what you choose.

Personally, I prefer a short action rifle along the lines of a 308 or its many cousins, the 7MM08 or even the 260 Rem, but I don't see a huge advantage in recoil from caliber alone. Stock shape, recoil pad and the way the rifle fits you is going to have more effect IMO.

And as has been mentioned, reloading really opens up your choices.
 
As many of you know, I'm a big .270 Win fan because it gives a slight edge in trajectory; however, our favorite stand allows shots at over 400 yards...not typical for most eastern deer hunters.

That's why I generally recommend .30-06, .308 Win, and 7mm-08 for most eastern deer hunting, especially for folks who are not likely to shoot a deer at long range.

As much shooting as I've done at the range with various rifles and cartridges owned by customers, I've never owned a .308 or 7mm-08, but have shot and been impressed by both for their accuracy and effectiveness on deer-sized game, as used by hunting buddies.

The .243 Win is also very impressive with Barnes TTSX, Horn. GMX bullets, or 100 grain lead-core factory rounds.
 
Another strong endorsement for the 6.5X55

A real pussycat to shoot and quite sufficient for deer and elk.
 
First ammo availability seems to be a big driver here, so the choice really boils down to what the OP can get.

So, go with 270 or 30-06, you have your good ammo selection and get a butt pad if needed so you don't get a flinch (I like the butt slip on type but others prefer strap on or you can go permanent limb save type)

Second recoil is truly subjective. I shoot 1917s bare metal against a T shirt in the summer and am fine with 30 or 40 of those. My bother with a jacket on thought it was worse than my dada 1903 very light Sporter. go figure.

A recoil pad works wonders for practice (which I do use on my dad light 1903 and the even heavier Sporter A3 I have if I shoot it with a T shirt). I tend to shoot 60 or 100 rounds at a session though as mine is target shooting these days.

As for Bart B, he is right, Performance wise the 300 magnum is better than a 30-06 but can you really USE it and do you really NEED it?

My point though is that with a powder like R17 you can (and Hornady makes factory ammo ) that matches the old 300 WM performance.

300 WM of course can use the same to increase its reach. But you PAY for that reach as its velocity issue (if you can do the same velocity in a 30-06 with the same bullet it would be the same). Personally I find the necked down parent cartridge like the 7mm Rem mag and the 300 mag nasty beasts.

But if a 30-06 in the old says took everything on this continent as well as Africa with its less stellar ammo (before 300 mag was available in 1963) and you get better 30-06 or 270 performance now, how finely have we sliced things so a 300 mag offers anything most of us can use? It may sell guns but sales apeal vs what we need and works is a different story and I encourage people to look at that and assess what is really needed vs the bigger bank thing is better. Good shooting and right ammo wins every time. A 300 mag is not going to make me a better shot.

Lot more boom and powder and probably only someone like Bart B could take advantage of any range or trajectory improvement.

300 yds is pushing it range wise for most of us, 400 is certainly so. I missed my one 450 yd shot (I cut the skin on top but the cigar was a lucky leg shot by my brother). I saw my brother make a paced 450 yd shot, clear field and he was able to drop on a hummack and do it prone not too often and he is a darned good field shooter.


Paul, please explain how the 7x57 can be reloaded to equal or surpass the .280 for a given bullet with equal peak pressure and barrel length when the .280's case has near 25% more volume.

That's about the same claim based on the .30-06 matching or bettering a .300 Win Mag.
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