Caliber for 100-300 yd Deer or Elk Newb

N

Nathan

New member
What low recoil caliber would you recommend for a new hunter for deer and elk? Frankly, I was thinking like 257 Roberts and my dad was thinking 7 x 57. Funny think is ammo is hard to find in either. So, if I actually want to be able to find ammo locally, what caliber should I be looking at?

Is 308 the only choice?
 
.30-06 using Federal Fusion ammo in a rifle/set up that weighs 8-9 lbs. The recoil is fairly light and with bullet choices from 150 - 180 grain you are set for deer/elk at the ranges you listed.
 
7mm-08 would be a good choice as long as you don't push the range on elk too far. Equivalent to the 7x57, but much more popular in this country. Ammo would be a lot easier to find. Yes, the 308 is also a good choice with slightly more recoil than the 7mm-08.
 
7mm-08 would be a great choice, as would 308, and there are a number of other cartridges that I would consider because I reload. It does not sound like you do though and those two choices are popular enough that most stores stock them and their recoil is considered very manageable by most shooters.
 
Someone famous (I don't know who) once said "The 30-06 is never a wrong choice."

Of course, someone is bound offer up the 270 as suitable for your needs and I don't know that I could argue with them over it.
 
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Find a rifle that fits you well in 270 Winchester. A close 2nd best is 30-'06. If price is very important, don't buy a new rifle. Get the best used rifle you can afford. I'm partial to the Winchester model 70 Classic.
 
low recoil and elk gun usually aren't found in the same sentence. I personally would not call 308 or 7x57 low recoiling but if that's the general type of cartridge size you're looking at then that is something I can work with. personally 257 roberts is too small for a beginner to big game hunting. it is great for deer, but most deer are about a quarter of the size of your average elk and not nearly as difficult to kill as an elk. 7mm is a pretty decent starting caliber for elk for a beginner. 7.57 is starting to become somewhat of a niche cartridge, if you already own one, then it'll do the job, but if you are looking to buy, might I suggest the 7mm-08 instead. essentially, they take a 308 cartridge and neck it down from 7.62mm to 7mm, allowing a smaller bullet in the same sized cartridge(IE more velocity and flatter shooting but at the cost of projectile weight). 7-08 is probably the smallest I would suggest for elk for anyone but a seasoned hunter. it would work great for both deer and elk, although you would likely want to choose different types of bullets for either species. depending on the length of barrel your gun has, and what your particular skill level is, I may or may not recommend using 7mm-08 out to 300 yards. shorter barrel=lower velocity and more bullet drop over range and wobbly shooter=gut shot animal running off and dieing a long distance from where they were initially shot.
 
.270 Winchester

All the punch of .30-06 generally, with a bit less recoil, and usually flatter shooting as well.

Don't be fooled by the lower weight projectiles, a 150 grain .277 cal bullet is roughly the equivalent of a 185 grain .308 cal bullet.
A 130 grain bullet has a superior sectional density compared to a 160 grain .308 cal bullet.
And a good majority of the 130-150 grain bullets for the .270 are constructed for Deer/Elk/Moose sized game. You should have absolutely no problems with a bonded premium bullet, assuming you can do your part and put it in the correct location.

.270 win with 150 grain projectiles, has a fairly mild recoil, IMO. A heavier gun will help reduce recoil, but at the cost of lugging around a heavier rifle.

With a 150 grain load @ 2833FPS and a 220 yard zero, you've got roughly 6.5'' of drop at 300 yards and you're only about 2.5'' high at 120-130 yards. That's with a conservative ballistic coefficient that I used. Comparable to a normal flat based SP bullet. A boat tailed bullet and/or a bullet with a 'ballistic tip' would shoot flatter.
 
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If you think a 270 Win is a hard kicker, you'll find a 308 Win to be a hard kicker as well. Recoil tolerance is very very subjective.

I recommend a CZ 550, Howa 1500, or Tikka T3 in 6.5x55 as the best choice for taking elk with minimal recoil. I recommend the CZ, but if you decide on the Tikka do not get a "lite" version.

It will still kick, but a 140gr bullet at 2650 fps from a 6.5x55 is going to kick less than a 165gr bullet at 2650 from a 308 Win.

Other caliber options include 260 Rem and 7mm-08. In theory the 260 Rem should have less recoil than the 6.5 Swede for the same bullet at the same velocity because it should use less powder, but in reality I doubt you could tell the difference.

Hope this helps,
Jimro
 
If you're really considering a 300 yard shot at elk, certainly the 30/06 is the minimum I'd recommend. Sure, there are others which will "work" but considering you're a "newb", you may have problems making sure of shot placement.

The 7x57 is a good choice but only if you reload and keep your elk shooting under 250 yards. I've killed a LOT of deer with a 7x57 and find most factory loads very "unimpressive"(much like reduced recoil ammo). My handloads make the 7x57 equal to the 7mm08 in performance but still at the low end of elk cartridges (under most hunting situations).
My "elk" rifles are 7mm Rem mag, 300 Win mag, and 338/06--none of which I've fired since the last time I went elk hunting.
 
Most 7X57 mauser's were of the '95 version, which arnt as strong as the 98s.

Taking that in mind, factory loads are produced assuming they will be shot in the 95s so are loaded accordingly.

I really don't see the 7X57 having less recoil then the 270, but to be honest I haven't shot many factory 7X57 shells.

I love my 257 Roberts, but I believe it might be on the light side for elk.

My go to elk rifle is a Model 70 Featherweight in 270. I don't find the recoil objectionable. And I will admit, Im a wimp when it comes to recoil.

My wife cant handle recoil very well. She broke her back and has three rods between her shoulder blades.

Yet she can handle the 270 with out undo discomfort. Granted she cant shoot 20 + rounds at a session but if you need that much ammo hunting, no rifle is going to work for you.

The 06 is an excellent round, as in the 308. Neither are known as hard kickers but they do produce a tad bit more recoil then the 270.

Most of my 06s are military surplus rifles (Garand, 1903a3 & a4, & Model 1917). They have steel buttplates. They will get you after a while unless you use a heavy shooting coat (which I use). But again, you wont notice the recoil while shooting at elk.

The deal is, sight in and practice in comfort because youll be shooting more ammo. There are several devices to use. I like the shoulder pad put out by buffaloarms.com. It absorbs the recoil of my 375 H&H quite well, making it a pleasure to shoot.

I don't use the pad while hunting and Ive never noticed recoil while shooting at game.

The problem comes is shooting heavy kickers in practice and developing a flinch which will carry over to hunting.

Regardless of what rifle/ammo check out this shoulder pad, IT WORKS.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Shoulder_Recoil_Pad_it-160522.aspx?CAT=4019

Shooting is suppose to be fun, getting beat to death isn't fun.

Regardless what you shoot, this shoulder recoil pad puts the fun back into shooting. Its comfortable and IT WORKS. I can shoot my steel butt plate M1903a3 all day while wearing mine.
 
Folks need to remember that whomever said "The 30-06 is never a wrong choice." did so a long time ago. There weren't many choices to pick one from back then. Nowadays, their's a lot of them. And any choice requires one to make some compromises.

I suggest a 30 caliber on that shoots 180-gr. bullets out at least 2600 fps for elk at ranges 400 yards or less to have at least 1800 fps velocity on impact. I consider that the minimum for average marksmen. Several cartridges will do that; the bigger ones will have more recoil for a given rifle weight. Smaller calibers will work too, such as the 27's with 150's or 28's with 160's shot fast enough, but one needs to be a good marksman to place shots precisely on game.

Game's killed with bullets. Cartridges shoot them out of rifles. If one compares five 30 caliber 180-gr. hunting bullets flying into game at 1900 fps at the same entry axis and velocity but they came from five different size cartridges, they'll all have identical performance assuming the animals are identical. The difference is how far the cartridge was from the animal.

Use 30 caliber 150's for deer.
 
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which ever rifle you choose myself I recommend the .270 win. make sure to get it fitted with a good quality recoil pad like limb saver or one of the other's they can make most any of these rifles a lot more pleasant to fire. :)
 
Agreed with the above and 270 is a very good choice for the listed game and distances.

You would do fine with the other choices, but the 270 is well suited and the ammo choices are good and available readily.

If you want a wider range then you can't beat 30-06 and certainly its better for the heavy stuff.

While Bart B is right, there are a lot of choices, what I come back to is they attempt to slice and dice the pie into nuances that do not exist in the real world.

My step dads father shot something like 6 or 7 grizzly bear with his 30-06. You don't need a 375 or the current rage of the lever actions to do that.

He also took I don't know how many moose with it which was the primary intent but property protection was the top requirement and the 30-06 did that (as far we can figure the grizzlies were one shot no drama kills)
 
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Karamojo Bell used 26 and 28 caliber medium size cartridges dropping African big game. That's my play in this card game.

Who's holding the highest trump card? My highest one says: "Given the right condition, any cartridge will do just fine."

When I was a teenager, the guy across the street took his Rem 721 in .300 H&H with a Weaver K2.5 for all big game from antelope thru elk and moose to the big bears. Newer powders make .30-06 ammo today equal to that .300.
 
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Nathen, of the two cartridges you mentioned, I would agree with your father. However, as been mentioned, factory ammo had been kept weak in deference to those old 93 and 95 Mausers still floating around. Frankly, IMHO I don't completely agree with that policy but what do I know? :rolleyes: The 7x57 is a very good cartridge when loaded to it's full potential and can in a modern rifle equal or even surpass the .280 Remington with proper handloads. Question is, are you an experienced handloader? In a modern rifle like a Winchester M70 Featherweight (FWT) I can easily get 2800 FPS with a 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip and have gone as high as 2800 FPS. Recently I was given data using the 150 gr. Nosler Partiton that the poster claimed 2900 FPS with a not too popular powder. Like most, I was inclined to state BS but did contact him for details and starting a good 10 percent below his charge did work up to his max load and did in fact achieve 2900 FPS with no apparent pressure signs. I'll probably tinker with the load a bit more but will probably not stick with it.
The late Col. Townsend Whelen once stated, "The 30-06 is never a mistake." and I agree with that comment.
To keep this simple, the 7x57 is a great cartridge, reasonably mild recoil, decently accurate but factory ammo is seriously lacking in punch. Winchester used to load a decent 175 gr. load that probably would have been good on elk to 200 yards but it's long gone. Federal's 175 gr. load doesn't come anywhere near advertised velocity of 2400 FPS, more like 2000 FPS barely in one lot from 1973 and 1999 IIRC. I shot a deer with the 1973 lot as it was all that was available in the little western town I was living in and it cost me one of the only two deer I've lost in 60+ years of hunting. Most other factory ammo use 140 gr. bullets which are fine for deer but Federal has one load with the 140 gr. Nosler Partition that at 2600 FPS, if it actually goes that fast might work on elk to 200 yards, give or take.
I think if I were you, I'd look at something like a Winchester M70 FWT in .270 Win. or 30-06 or the same brand rifle in the standard sporter which is a heavier rifle. If recoil is a bit of a bother, have a competent gunsmith replace the recoil pad with a Pachmeyr Decelerator pad and enjoy life. They really do make a difference.
Even with easy to find ammo like .270 and 30-06, learn to reload and shoot a lot. Good luck.
Paul B.
 
Paul, please explain how the 7x57 can be reloaded to equal or surpass the .280 for a given bullet with equal peak pressure and barrel length when the .280's case has near 25% more volume.

That's about the same claim based on the .30-06 matching or bettering a .300 Win Mag.
 
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