(CA) SWAT team kills 11-yr old boy

I hope the drugs they obtained were worth the kid's life. I doubt the cop will be convicted, but I doubt he's gonna stick around for very long afterwards either. What a tradgedy.

I don't know what else to say,
Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
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"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
http://ben.gunsnet.net
 
mrat, the original link no longer works. Based upon what we know, you're right, we were mistaken ... we should have called it a 'dynamic entry'.

That distinction aside, the point remains ... how could this be worth it?

And, help me out here ... I'm not an expert on meth labs - don't they require a lot of chemicals? So, why the lethal force measures, and tragic results? Was this kid's dad likely to flush 50 gallon drums down the toilet?

Our local LEO's don't pull this stuff - they keep the peace. But fed's and some of these large, urban LEO forces seem to really get off on this kind of thing. I don't know what others think of these COPS shows and other video of LEO's, but I'm left with the distinct impression that many of these guys use excessive force, and they clearly enjoy the power of it all. I'm often left disgusted as they gleefully hammer some guy because they found a joint in his car, for example.

And so we've come to a point where 'drugs' seem to be the convenient, trusty excuse for these massive displays of power. And, logic tells us that occasionally it must end like this ... with the deaths of innocent people.

I'm sorry, but from my perspective, this has nothing in common with an auto accident where a boy's seat belt was left unfastened. This was the massive application of police force we've come to accept, and it is part of the War on Some Drugs.

I feel very, very strongly that we are truly a short distance away from this same kind of thing in the War on Some Guns. I fully expect it to come to your neighborhood and mine, and it is creating needless loss of life. LEO's are creating hatred for themselves and their uniforms with these actions.
 
Originally posted by Jeff Thomas:
"And, help me out here ... I'm not an expert on meth labs - don't they require a lot of chemicals? So, why the lethal force measures, and tragic results? Was this kid's dad likely to flush 50 gallon drums down the toilet?"

Actually it doesn't take 50 gallon drums to make meth. Meth is quite easy to make. I don't know a lot about meth labs but I know enough that I don't want to be around one. Firing rounds in a meth lab is VERY dangerous. I am sure some of the other LEOs here know more about meth labs.


"I'm sorry, but from my perspective, this has nothing in common with an auto accident where a boy's seat belt was left unfastened."

The point I was trying to show is that parents are responsible for their kids safety and should try to keep them out of unsafe situations. I think we can all agree that selling/using drugs out of your house is not safe for your children regardless if it is legal or not.
Click to expand...
 
The newsday article was pulled, so I could not read it. But what was posted here did not say this was a lab. It did not say they found drugs. It did not say they found anything, just that they charged him with a crime. He might be guilty of nothing more than choosing his friends badly.

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galt
Speak Out on the Net http://www.netcitizen.org
 
Another case of "collateral damage" in the War on Drugs.

Coming soon to a family near YOU....

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H.L. Mencken
 
Don't be surprised if the parents are charged with the son's murder. If they caused a death to occur during the commission of a felony, they can be held responsible- as sick and twisted as that may seem.

There is a well known case where a man showed up at a hotel room to buy drugs. The seller produced the drugs, the buyer pulled a gun and started shooting the seller. It turns out that the whole thing was a sting. An FBI agent burst into the room at the sound of gunfire and shot the buyer dead. The seller lived. Here is the kicker: The shooter's (buyer who pulled his gun and shot the seller) friend who was waiting in the car the whole time gets charged with murder- the murder of his friend, the buyer, who was killed by the FBI. The FBI shoots and kills- the "get-away driver": in the parking lot is charged with "killing"
 
Let me see if I get this right?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Alberto Sepulveda, a seventh-grader, was shot in the back Wednesday when an officer accidentally fired his shotgun, said Police Chief Roy Wasden.
David Hawn, a 21-year department veteran and a SWAT team member for more than 18 years, was placed on paid leave pending an investigation.
[/quote]

It says here, it was an accidental shooting.
A consequence of which, an adolescent citizen dies.

Does that NOT constitute manslaughter?

Considering the BS against gun-owners in this country, why is this occurence differnt than any other accidental shooting?

I know a guy who's in jail because he accidentally ran a stop sign, and someone died. He didn't shot them, he ran a stop light.

I suppose the parents will be charged with murder. Because if they weren't under suspicion of "something", then the cops wouldn't have been there, thus no death. Simple enough isn't it?


How about this scenario. If the officer is found guilty of negligent acts, and charged with manslughter, or?? Does his partner officers get charged with the crime as well, like happens with crooks whose partner gets killed during the commission of crimes, and they(partner in crime) get the rap for it?

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"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... in the several kingdoms of Europe ... the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms" (James Madison, the Federalist Papers, No. 46).

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in theregion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -Benjamin Franklin

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited September 15, 2000).]
 
MODESTO -- Police and prosecutors are investigating how an 11-year-old boy was accidentally shot in the back and killed by a veteran SWAT team member during a federal drug raid at his family's home.

Alberto Sepulveda, a seventh-grader, died Wednesday morning on the floor of his bedroom, killed by a blast from officer David Hawn's shotgun.

"From the preliminary investigation, all indications so far is that the shooting was accidental," Police Chief Roy Wasden said Thursday.

The chief, addressing the crisis a month after being sworn in, declined to elaborate until his department and the Stanislaus County District Attorney's Office complete parallel investigations.

"We'll go through a very exhaustive and thorough investigation to find out what happened and why," he said. "Then we will try to implement changes to ensure we will never have a similar accident."

Hawn, a 21-year department veteran and a SWAT team member for more than 18 years, was placed on paid leave pending the outcome of the probes.

Mike Van Winkle, a spokesman for the state Department of Justice, which has 500 drug agents and investigators, said no veterans he spoke with could recall any other accidental shooting of children during previous drug raids.

Last year, Hawn was cleared of wrongdoing for misfiring his gun into a suspect who had already killed himself during a SWAT raid. An internal investigation concluded an attacking pitbull brushed the muzzle of Hawn's gun as he and other officers were checking the suspect for signs of life.

"He has a star record," his chief said.

Hawn and five fellow team members entered the Sepulveda home about 6:15 a.m. Wednesday in one of 14 raids that were part of a nine-month investigation into methamphetamine trafficking by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency.

The boy's father, Moises Sepulveda, who owns an auto repair shop, was one of 14 people arrested in the sweep.

He was booked on charges of methamphetamine trafficking and remained jailed Thursday.

The boy's mother, 8-year-old sister and 14-year-old brother were also home during the raid.

Moises Sepulveda Jr. was on the top bunk bed above his brother when the SWAT team began banging on the door. He said he does not know if his brother was awake when he left the room. But his father was and the two met in the hallway.

"My father said to stay calm. Then the front door blew open and they threw out one of those smoke bombs," the teen-ager said, pointing to the brown scorch mark left on the living room floor by the canister.

"My dad was cuffed and I was cuffed and one of them was stepping on my neck, pointing a gun down at me and told me not to move," he said. "I heard another blast and thought it was another smoke bomb.

"But it turns out they shot my brother."

Thursday, friends and relatives gathered on the front lawn outside the family's home in the city's north side to help them grieve. Inside, the section of carpet where Alberto died was ripped up, not far from his bed.

"It smelled like blood so bad, so we threw it away," Sepulveda Jr. said.

The boy's mother wanted her privacy and did not wish to speak. She began wailing when someone arrived with a copy of the local newspaper and it got passed her way.

"This is hard for her," said sister-in-law Josefina Felix. "She cried and said 'I don't understand. He's only 11 years old. He did nothing."

Why did he kill my son?' She cried and cried. And I cried, too."

A Spanish-speaking police chaplain has been assigned to help the family through the ordeal.

"We're doing everything we can to help the mother and the other two children," he said. "We'll move through this. It's a tough thing."

Sepulveda Jr., echoing the feelings of neighbors, relatives and other community members, said he didn't understand why investigators did not try to enter peacefully before breaking down the door.

"They could have come in nicely. We would have opened the door. My dad isn't the kind of man who would put his family in jeopardy."

In methamphetamine raids, authorities have to know the potential that children could be present. More than 1,000 children were found living in clandestine methamphetamine labs seized by law enforcement officers in California last year, according to figures released in May.

"There easily could be other people in those residences that are not suspects," Van Winkle said.

© 2000 by MediaNews Group, Inc. and ANG Newspapers

***After reading the bold text I don't believe I'd ever trust this Hawn fella with a gun again.



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Just one of the Good Guys
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Last year, Hawn was cleared of wrongdoing for misfiring his gun into a suspect who had already killed himself during a SWAT raid. An internal investigation concluded an attacking pitbull brushed the muzzle of Hawn's gun as he and other officers were checking the suspect for signs of life.

"He has a star record," his chief said.[/quote]

"Star", eh? Sounds more like a loose cannon.

Why does it seem that suspects conveniently off themselves during these raids?
 
Thank goodness those brave warriors saved that 11 year old from those nasty drugs. Now he will never get into trouble. I'm sure the rest of those brave federales would love a nation of peaceful, harmless (and dead) citizens like that. It makes it so much easier to inforce all of those illegal, unconstitutional anti freedom laws against drugs, sex and guns when all of the bad guys (us citizens; i.e. non-LEOs) are dead.

I hate this lost war on drugs and the waste of life, money and national integrety it has become.
 
Why don't they just go up the house and nail doors and windows shut.Then put gas all around and light it.We have to stamp out the drugs and if there are children present why its their parents fault.
Isn't that the excuse used at Waco too.
MURDER IS F**KING MURDER EXCEPT WHEN DONE BY A LEO DURING A RAID OR KILL SOMEONE WITH A BOTTLE RAISED OR SOMEONE REACHING FOR ID OR--------------------------------------
ALL LAWS SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR ALL PEOPLE NOT SOME ABOVE AND SOME BELOW THE LAW

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

[This message has been edited by beemerb (edited September 16, 2000).]
 
What Bob said

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Unfortunatley this will be counted as another child of the global village dying because of "gun violence" by the million commie mommies.

I think the whole WOD thing needs a serious re-asessment. But then again we needed new enemies after the "end" of the cold war.
Wasnt bush big on this WOD?

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.
A RAND

Carry concealed so as not to spook the herd. "Some TFL Member?"

Some Problems require an LGM-118A Solution.
 
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