C&R Question

[DaveBeal]

Regarding the definition of a straw purchase, the ATF's Federal Firearms Regulations Guidelines say:

In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms from the licensee.​

 

[kilimanjaro]

You posted, directly from the regs,

"Provided further, That when disposition is made of a firearm or firearm
curio or relic not entered in the bound record under the provisions of
this paragraph, the licensed dealer or licensed collector making such
disposition shall enter all required acquisition information regarding
the firearm or firearm curio or relic in the bound record at the time
such transfer or disposition is made. "

And then added that NOWHERE does it require you to post a firearm acquired without your C&R license. You have a comprehension disability, the regulation you posted says a 'firearm curio or relic'. Further, it applies to a disposition of same that are 'not entered in the bound record'. That means, quite clearly, that all sales or gifts from your collection get logged in. Whether you have the paperwork or not, you use your best memory. I would personally rather have logged in an old C&R with only serial number and date of sale and to whom sold rather than log in nothing because 30-year old paperwork was not at hand.

 

[gyvel]

(B) If, after obtaining a license, a firearm is acquired for your personal collection, it must be entered into your bound book whether or not you use your collectors' license to purchase the weapon. See 27CFR 178.125(f). Any subsequent sale would have to be entered in your bound book records.

Slightly OT, but this, if it is, in fact, a genuine ATF letter, is the answer I have been waiting for for over a month from them.

The original hypothetical situation was that you have seen and purchased a known (to you) C&R gun in a gun store and the owner, who is an 01 FFL refuses to honor your 03 FFL and makes you fill out a 4473 for the purchase.

The question was: Does the fact that the gun was sold to you on a 4473 preclude you having to enter it into your A&D book, since you were denied the use of your 03 license?

And apparently the answer is that you enter it no matter how it was acquired.

Rather a stupid concept, in light of the fact that, had it been a modern weapon (i.e. NOT a C&R), it would not have to be entered into your A&D.

 

[SwampYankee]

kilimanjaro,

You are still wrong. You forgot to comprehend the phrase, "firearm curio or relic not entered in the bound record under the provisions of this paragraph". Seems like you're just never gonna get it, are you? I know a thing about contracts and legal documents and I can tell you that this clause is very specific to the condition it describes. All you have to do is read it. It is not a broad generalization and no lawyer or judge in the United States is going to interpret it in the way you are trying. Nor is any prosecutor for the US, working on an ATF case. It just doesn't mean what you think it does.

When I said, "NO WHERE does it say you have to put the sale information into your book if you purchased it without a C&R. Period." I meant BEFORE you acquired the C&R, which is what the discussion is actually about. I was never debating how you purchase an item if you already have a C&R. Still your comprehension defect, but compounded by an omission in my language. However, seeing as how you are participating in a discussion already underway and not walking into it after-the-fact, I would expect you to kindly keep up. Feel free to also pick on my speling if it mackes you fell beter! Get it?

Which brings me to gyvel. Thank you, gyvel, for the info. Still does not settle the question at hand but it's a good piece of information. It speaks to the difference between an FFL01 and FFL03, whereas an FFL01 can take an item off his commercial books and put it into a private inventory and an FFL03 cannot because his inventory is already a private collection.