C&R Pistols and Modern Day Cartridges

D

Dino.

Moderator
I'm looking to make another C&R handgun purchase and since I don't reload, I would like it to be able to accept modern day cartridges.

I had given serious consideration to the Star Modelo Super 9mm.
It looked like the perfect choice, but I later learned that these guns are chambered for 9mm Largo, not 9mm Parabellum. :(

I've also learning that in some cases, a C&R handgun that is stamped "9mm" may actually be chambered for .380. :confused:

Is there maybe a good internet resource available that may help me identify C&R handgun models and their respective calibers?

Thanks in advance for your help. :)
 
CZ-82 ! The 9mm Makarov ammo is so available that it may as well be considered "modern day". I'm thinking you mean the ammo should be "readily available" versus "modern day" though. Both 9mm luger and 45ACP are readily available but are not modern. Heck, they're ancient.
 
I'm thinking you mean the ammo should be "readily available" versus "modern day" though.
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That is correct. :o

The whole 9mm thing is becoming a little confusing to me ...
I know 9mm Largo is 9x23 and I know 9mm Parabellum is the same as 9mm Luger, same as 9mm NATO, same as 9x19, right? So, what is 9x18 and are the two interchangable (9x19 and 9x18)?

And what about those pistols stamped "9mm" that are actually .380?
 
9x18 is not interchangable. The bullet is a bit wider and the case is 1mm shorter. I like to put 9x18, from a functional perspective, between .380 and 9mm luger.

9x17 = .380 auto = .355 diameter bullet
9x18 = 9mm Makarov = .362 diameter bullet
9x19 = 9mm Luger (parabellum) = .355 diameter bullet

All three are readily available.

You can also get a Tokarev pistol. The ammo is still readily available (but not in surplus), but it's easy to convert the Tokarev to 9mm Luger. I can switch back and forth from 7.62x25 and 9mm Luger by swapping barrels and bushings (about a 2 minute task). Folks thought I was crazy to even try that conversion because the 7.62x25 surplus ammo was so available and cheap. Well it seems to have dried up now. Nice to know I can still shoot it cheaply with 9mm luger ammo too.
 
Thanks noelf2, that's a big help. :)
Are the 9mm Luger barrels and bushings for the Tokarev readily available?
If so, where do I find them?

What about reliability?
Any feeding/eject. issues with using the 9mm Luger barrel/bushing conversion with a 9x18 mag and extractor?
 
Dino - Read through this thread for the conversion:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415599&highlight=numrich

You asked about 9x18 magazines. The Tokarev isn't 9x18, it is 7.62x25. I'm guessing you wanted to know if the Tokarev 7.62x25 magazines work ok with 9mm Luger ammo:

I've had no issues with reliability using 9mm Luger in the Tokarev. Only parts I change is the barrel and bushing, and it's quite accurate (I was surprised). You can get 9mm magazines for the Tokarevs but I find the standard 7.62x25 mags work without a glitch. Load and feed 9mm just fine. I've had "0" failures to feed or fire in over 300 rounds of 9mm through my Tok so far. Same for the 7.62x25 when I have that barrel in it.
 
I've also learning that in some cases, a C&R handgun that is stamped "9mm" may actually be chambered for .380.
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Generally, if it's prewar, European, compact, and blowback, this is the case. They're usually pretty easy to spot. Most of these pistols also came in a .32ACP version (FN Browning 1910/1922, Walther PP-series, etc).

If the pistol resembles a M1911 or a Hi-Power, it's generally not a .380/9x17mm.
 
Dino - Read through this thread for the conversion:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...hlight=numrich

You asked about 9x18 magazines. The Tokarev isn't 9x18, it is 7.62x25. I'm guessing you wanted to know if the Tokarev 7.62x25 magazines work ok with 9mm Luger ammo:

I've had no issues with reliability using 9mm Luger in the Tokarev. Only parts I change is the barrel and bushing, and it's quite accurate (I was surprised). You can get 9mm magazines for the Tokarevs but I find the standard 7.62x25 mags work without a glitch. Load and feed 9mm just fine. I've had "0" failures to feed or fire in over 300 rounds of 9mm through my Tok so far. Same for the 7.62x25 when I have that barrel in it.
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Thanks for the response.
Good info in that link too!

Thanks guys, for all your responses.
 
Just for fun, the major 9mm cartridges:

9x19, aka 9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm '08, 9mm NATO

9x18 Makarov, aka the 9mm Russian, 9mm Makarov

9x18 Police, aka the 9x18 Ultra (not the same or interchangeable with the 9x18 Makarov)

9mm Steyr

9mm Bergman-Bayard, aka the 9mm Largo

9mm Short, aka the 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Corto, 9mm Court, and .380 ACP

9mm Browning Long, aka 9x21, aka the Swedish M 1907

9mm Mauser Export

And those are the common 9mm auto pistol cartridges. There have been several 9mm revolver cartridges, including the Japanese Type 26, and a number of 9mm cartriges that were experimental or of limited issue.

Jim
 
Just for fun, the major 9mm cartridges:

9x19, aka 9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm '08, 9mm NATO

9x18 Makarov, aka the 9mm Russian, 9mm Makarov

9x18 Police, aka the 9x18 Ultra (not the same or interchangeable with the 9x18 Makarov)

9mm Steyr

9mm Bergman-Bayard, aka the 9mm Largo

9mm Short, aka the 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Corto, 9mm Court, and .380 ACP

9mm Browning Long, aka 9x21, aka the Swedish M 1907

9mm Mauser Export

And those are the common 9mm auto pistol cartridges. There have been several 9mm revolver cartridges, including the Japanese Type 26, and a number of 9mm cartriges that were experimental or of limited issue.

Jim
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Holy smokes! :eek:
 
You can also get a Tokarev pistol. The ammo is still readily available (but not in surplus), but it's easy to convert the Tokarev to 9mm Luger. I can switch back and forth from 7.62x25 and 9mm Luger by swapping barrels and bushings (about a 2 minute task). Folks thought I was crazy to even try that conversion because the 7.62x25 surplus ammo was so available and cheap. Well it seems to have dried up now. Nice to know I can still shoot it cheaply with 9mm luger ammo too.
Click to expand...

If they thought YOU were crazy, I have to wonder what they thought about me? (being the person to originate the conversion thread!) Probably thought I was looney as a gooney bird. But now that 9mm ammo is CHEAPER than 7.62... well I guess I ain't so crazy after all;)

Numrich still lists the 9mm barrel with link and pin. They were out of the bushing last time I checked. I heard Sarco had some, but ... you will have to check.
 
If they thought YOU were crazy
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That's right! You were the instigator. Saved me some serious $$ because I was looking for a solid inexpensive hammer fired 9mm at the time. Was thinking about a Browning Hi-Power but the cost was discouraging. The Tok conversion was the perfect answer for me.

I didn't do the conversion because I thought the Tok ammo would dry up, but now that it has (for the time being) it's nice to have other options. I wonder how much longer numrich will have the barrels in stock?
 
For a while, some company in Minnesota was offering stainless 9mm Luger barrels for the Star Supers. I did the conversion and it shoots flawlessly. Sadly, that company went bankrupt, but the barrels pop up every now and then.
 
Update ...

I found my C&R pistol ... a Radom VIS P-35, chambered in 9mm Parabellum. :)

The pistol is all original, comes with two mags, has Nazi markings, and a lot of history.
I haven't received it yet, but it appears to be in great shape.
I'll be sure to post pics when I get it. ;)
 
I didn't do the conversion because I thought the Tok ammo would dry up, but now that it has (for the time being) it's nice to have other options. I wonder how much longer numrich will have the barrels in stock?

Dunno. The bushings went quick.


I also recently found a place that has 9mm barrels to convert Wiselite Sterlings from 7.x25....
 
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