buying a handgun when resident of PA lives in MN

The out of state part.... not sure how that impacts a transfer.
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Basically, there is no transfer. If you go there, or they come here, its done when you hand it to them.

Now the laws of the other state are a whole different issue, and you need to decide what youre going to do.
 
I'm afraid I don't understand what you said or mean AK103K. Of course the transfer is person to person. The question is, IS it legal?
 
Being a former PA resident, if I take one of my handguns to PA and give to my brother, I still have to go through a FFL to accomplish this legally. How the firearm gets there is of no consequence. It is about residency..... PA to PA and immediate family, okay. Other state to PA resident (even in person) not legal as I understand it. This is essentially true of all states when doing an out of state transfer. The OP is from NC.
 
Just eliminate any and all legal issues and risk of theft by airport employees by buying the pistol in PA and having the FFL ship to another FFL in MN. You'll spend a bit more money, but what's fifty bucks nowadays?

You could even go on Gunbroker during the holiday visit, the two of you purchase what you want, pay for it, and have it shipped to MN FFL to arrive after return.
 
Its federal law that close relatives can give guns to each other without a transfer. No FFL transfer is required. Your state of residence means nothing, if its done in person. No ones business otherwise anyway. Shipping it is a whole other issue.

Now if the states law requires otherwise, or possession is an issue, thats on the owner to deal with.
 
I have nothing to do with this purchase. My father, who lives in PA, will be purchasing and giving to his daughter, a PA resident, who lives in MN.
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Well, that makes it a lot easier on a person to person transfer in PA. Glad you cleared that up. I would just give her the gun at Christmas when she visits and that is perfectly legal.

AK103K. It is federal law that it is perfectly legal for private transfers between individuals who are not restricted in owning a handgun. You don't have to be related. PA law is different; that is where the family relationship comes into play on handgun transfers or gifts.
 
Well, that makes it a lot easier on a person to person transfer in PA. Glad you cleared that up. I would just give her the gun at Christmas when she visits and that is perfectly legal.
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Yes most likely he will pay for the gun and she would actually buy it herself in PA over xmas so there should be no issue there. But we are still figuring it all out. The issue is that she has to fly back to MN and somehow get the gun there. Once she is there with the gun she is good to go and will have to work though the ccw process as a non resident in MN.
 
AK103K said:
Its federal law that close relatives can give guns to each other without a transfer. No FFL transfer is required. Your state of residence means nothing, if its done in person. No ones business otherwise anyway.....
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Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

There has been a lot of horrible, incorrect information in this thread. Relying on it could result in folks committing federal felonies, going to federal prison for up to five years, and losing their gun rights for the rest of their lives.

Let's look at the OP's question and then at what federal law on the subject is.

adamBomb said:
We are getting a handgun for a relative this xmas. They live in minnesota but are a PA resident - they are a student so they cant become a mn resident. What is the easiest way to go about this?
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I. Federal Law on Interstate Transfers of Firearms (enacted by the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA68) and thus in force for nearly 50 years):

Here (for the umpteenth time) is the whole federal law story on interstate firearms transfer (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses):

  • Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

  • In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  • In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  • There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  • The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  • Here's what the statutes say:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​
    ...
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II. Federal Law on Residence for the Purposes of Firearms Transfer

Federal regulations define "state of residence" for the purposes of GCA68 as follows (27 CFR 478.11):
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels to the United States on a three-week vacation to State X. A does not have a state of residence in State X because A does not have the intention of making a home in State X while on vacation. This is true regardless of the length of the vacation.

Example 4.

A, an alien, travels to the United States to work for three years in State X. A rents a home in State X, moves his personal possessions into the home, and his family resides with him in the home. A intends to reside in State X during the 3-year period of his employment. A is a resident of State X.
​
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III. Application to a Student

Under that definition, a student living away at school is a resident of the State in which he is going to school when he is actually living in that State. This has been confirmed by ATF:
...in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or off-campus housing is located....
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The issue for a student wanting to have transferred to him a gun in the State in which he lives while attending school away from his home State will be furnishing satisfactory identification to the FFL allowing the FFL to be able to establish the transferee's State of residence. In the ATF publication, Federal Firearms Licensee Quick Reference and Best Practices Guide (ATF P 5300.15), describes satisfactory identification as follows (pg 6, emphasis in bold in original, emphasis in italics added):
General Identification Requirements

You MUST verify the identity of each non-licensee buyer by examining the person’s identification document(s) prior to transferring a firearm. A proper “identification document” is:

  1. A document containing the name, residence address, 1. date of birth, and photograph of the person;

  2. A document that was made or issued by or under 2. the authority of the U.S. Government, a State or local government, or a foreign government;

  3. A document that is of a type commonly accepted for 3. the purpose of identification of individuals.
Common examples of acceptable identification documents are a valid driver’s license or a valid State identification card issued in lieu of a driver’s license. Social security cards are not acceptable because they do not contain a residence address, date of birth, or photograph. However, a firearms buyer may be identified by any combination of documents which together contain all of the required information (as long as all the documents are Government issued): name, residence address, photograph, and date of birth.
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So a student will need one of more documents satisfying the following criteria:

  • Government issued

  • With his photograph

  • Including his date of birth

  • Showing his residence address in in the State in which he is living while attending school.
 
Yes most likely he will pay for the gun and she would actually buy it herself in PA over xmas so there should be no issue there. But we are still figuring it all out. The issue is that she has to fly back to MN and somehow get the gun there. Once she is there with the gun she is good to go and will have to work though the ccw process as a non resident in MN.
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The shipping via airlines is done all the time. You just have to declare the firearm and meet their packaging requirements. You just pick up the bag at the other end. Hopefully, nobody has opened the suitcase and removed the gun.

The permit may be a problem. I really haven't looked into non-resident permits in MN. I know they don't honor the PA permit. The reason I suspect is that PA does not require any kind of "training" to get the permit and MN does.

She can still have the handgun in MN without the permit but I would think that is rather obvious.
 
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