Buy/Sell/Trade Receipt To Cover Your butt

S

samefly

New member
thought I'd share this invoice/receipt I made when buying/selling/trading firearms. I read that it was good to get basic info from the person you're doing business with to cover your butt when it comes to getting/selling second hand. Just keep it in your records to prove who you sold/bought the firearm to/from and when.

INVOICE---GUN.gif


what steps do you take when buying/selling/trading used?
 
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I'll only add that if you don't see photo ID, you don't know who you're dealing with. If you're going to do a bill of sale, you should probably get a look at their ID, confirm the photo & record the ID number.

I've about reached the point where I only sell to people I know, or FFL's.
 
This keeps coming up.

For a dissenting opinion, I'll just mention that if I wanted a paper trail I'd be buying from an FFL. I'm not a prohibited person and I don't mind showing a seller my carry license to prove it, but if you start writing down my personal information ... the sale is canceled.
 
Some will indeed balk if you ask to see ID. Presumably, and from the title of the thread, the OP was concerned about CYA.

Thank Lautenberg and all those who supported it.
 
what steps do you take when buying/selling/trading used?
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I use something similar to what you have with the addition of a place for there driver license info as well as there CCW permit info.
Just me no CCW permit NO SALE/TRADE
Even with the above info problems can occur. I sold a hand gun, it was used in a robbery in NJ and LE was at my front door looking for info. It can happen. My advise is get all the info you can to CYA.
 
That's a good form I suppose.

I'd tell you to keep the gun (or the money if you happen to be buying from me and had your own paperwork), but I'm sure someone would sign it.
 
I use a form similar to that but I include the following:

By signing this document, the Seller and Buyer warrant that (1) the Seller is the legal owner of the Fire Arm(s); (2) the Fire Arm(s) is/are free from all liens and encumbrances; (3) the Seller has the right to sell the Fire Arm(s); (4) the Seller will warrant and defend the title of the Fire Arms(s) against any and all claims and demands of all persons; (5) the Buyer is not a felon, (6) has the legal right to purchase a firearm under Federal and Florida law, (7) is the actual Buyer of the firearm (purchasing it for their own use and ownership), (8) is a legal U.S. citizen, (9) is not pending criminal litigation, and (10) takes all responsibility for the firearm after this document is signed.
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The purpose to me, and from what I read, is to show who I bought/sold to and when I sold/bought it. I sell a firearm to a seemingly normal & rational person who might not be planning to heist a bank but they may end up having a very abnormal and irrational moment somewhere down the line (get mad at a spouse, mad at life, road rage, whatever). Should that unlikely event happen I want to be able to show that I sold that firearm legally, had no reason to believe this person was a nut, and no involvement after the date on that receipt.

I also want some kind of proof that I bought it legitimately should law enforcement ever question me about the firearm, if it's stolen while I own it, for my own records, and also for insurance purposes. It is perfectly within your right to not want to show me ID or sign anything. It's also in my right (and best interest) to not deal with buying or selling to anyone that doesn't feel they need to do that. To each his own. Going to court or being questioned by LEOs isn't always enjoyable. I'm not a lawyer in any shape, form, or fashion but I imagine not having any proof could make that even less enjoyable.

Maybe writing down the ID# is a bit much for some concerned about identity theft but if you won't even show me ID than I've got concerns. The best way to show me you're a legal resident of the State is just show me a State ID. Everything else I'll take on good faith. But I'll definitely need a receipt.

And to anyone that thinks it's silly to CYA in legal matters... I mean... really? Lawsuits and being wrongly accused seem WAY more commonplace then shoot outs in this modern day society. Someone becomes a millionaire from being dumb enough to not realize fresh coffee is hot and another person loses their job for defending their self from being killed/shot at work. If I'm willing to buy a firearm to CMA than having proof of a legitimate purchase shouldn't be too much to do.

With all that said and done in the end = To Each His Own. I just wanted to share something I thought would help those interested. That's my buck fifty anyway.
 
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Can cover it in more ways than you realize

Physical paper forms like this will cover you in more ways than one. Aside from a personal, non-legal document it's a very good way or tracking and documenting. I started using a software program onto a disc but then my PC crashed and had not updated the disc. ... :rolleyes:

Examples;
I not only list what I paid for an item, I also list it's current "running" value. This is useful in order to refer to it and leave for your widow so she knows how to liquidate your collection, as she sees fit. .... :)

Helps you to document a lot of stuff that you can no longer remember, which is directly proportional to your age. .... ;)

Documents what you might have lost, damaged or stolen.

Be Safe !!!
 
I once got a call from a Denver PD Detective regarding a 357 S&W I once owned that was recovered in an officer involved shooting. (Cops 1, Badguy 0)
I had sold it to a local shop several years before yet somehow they came up with my name and I'm sure that when I bought it new from a dealer the "Brady Background Check" was not yet in place. At any rate, since then I have made it a point to keep a record of when, where, and who I sell firearms to so if that serial # ever comes back to me in the form of questions by Law Enforcement, I can say with certainty when I sold it and who to. That should satisfy most investigators, unless they have some reason to believe I am somehow connected to the crime, which they don't cause I'm just a boring, tired, old guy. When I sell a gun, I don't need a signature, but if the guy wont give me his name, I'm not selling him anything. :)
 
I'd tell you to keep the gun (or the money if you happen to be buying from me and had your own paperwork), but I'm sure someone would sign it.
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Good to know as you and I will not be doing any business together.. No tickie no shirtie
 
I once got a call from a Denver PD Detective regarding a 357 S&W I once owned that was recovered in an officer involved shooting. (Cops 1, Badguy 0)
I had sold it to a local shop several years before yet somehow they came up with my name and I'm sure that when I bought it new from a dealer the "Brady Background Check" was not yet in place. At any rate, since then I have made it a point to keep a record of when, where, and who I sell firearms to so if that serial # ever comes back to me in the form of questions by Law Enforcement, I can say with certainty when I sold it and who to. That should satisfy most investigators, unless they have some reason to believe I am somehow connected to the crime, which they don't cause I'm just a boring, tired, old guy. When I sell a gun, I don't need a signature, but if the guy wont give me his name, I'm not selling him anything.
Today 02:32 PM
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Simple, cops call ATF,ATF calls manufacturer to see what distributor sold the gun to what dealer. Then dealer is contacted for the info on the 4473 and that is how they found you. Then it is onward from you as to who to go to next.
 
Should that unlikely event happen I want to be able to show that I sold that firearm legally, had no reason to believe this person was a nut, and no involvement after the date on that receipt.
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So what.

You sold the gun and obeyed the laws at the time.

it sounds like you are trying to act like a dealer without an FFL.
 
For a dissenting opinion, I'll just mention that if I wanted a paper trail I'd be buying from an FFL. I'm not a prohibited person and I don't mind showing a seller my carry license to prove it, but if you start writing down my personal information ... the sale is canceled.
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+1. I would not exchange any information in a private sale.
 
Good to know as you and I will not be doing any business together.. No tickie no shirtie
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And that's fine with me. No problem at all.

However, if you think a hand written form, that could be filled out and signed by anybody, anywhere, anytime, is going to make any difference if "they" have any evidence, other than the fact that you may or may not have owned a particular gun, you're kidding yourself.

On the other hand if "they" don't have anything else at all, connecting you to the crime, you don't really need an easily faked piece of paper.
 
However, if you think a hand written form, that could be filled out and signed by anybody, anywhere, anytime, is going to make any difference if "they" have any evidence, other than the fact that you may or may not have owned a particular gun, you're kidding yourself.

On the other hand if "they" don't have anything else at all, connecting you to the crime, you don't really need an easily faked piece of paper.
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See it anyway you wish. All I know is having that piece of paper got the monkey off my back when the gun I sold was used in a robbery in NJ. All that the LE in NJ asked me to do was to fax a copy of the bill of sale to them because ATF was getting involved. My local LE was satisfied when they saw the bill of sale.
 
and thus the internet happens


I guess to each his own means nothing? Or the fact that I said it was for those that may find it helpful. If you do or don't want to use it that's up to you. Appreciate the points of view (on both sides). No need for anyone to be hostile over it regardless of what side of the fence you're on.
 
No need for anyone to be hostile over it regardless of what side of the fence you're on.
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No hostilities here. I do wonder how things would have gone for me if I didn't have that bill of sale. Water under the bridge and I can only speculate.
 
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