Bush on iraq...(here we go again.)
- Thread starter Esquire M Busterbury
- Start date
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Would you doubt it if he didn't? Based on 10 minutes of CNN or Fox I'd say they've been doing it long enough to not have to be told...
There's something to be said for spaced repitition...mom always said it was the best way to learn something, and what would you say we've all learned as a country? *in zombie voice* IRAAAAAAAAQQ....9/1111111111111111...WWWWWMMMMMMDDDDDDD'S...Then all of a sudden some aggrivating KID starts saying, "wait a sec, nothing had anything to do with anything". To which we reply as a country "How do you have time to read all those papers?! Don't you have a job? We've all been busy with our 9 to 5. All we can do is watch a little tv here & there and this is what we've been told, this is the president we like." To which the stupid kid replies: "But that president is wrong. What he's been doing is bad. Everything you've been spoonfed is B.S." Then the adults reply "Screw you, you should be drafted. Get a job and stop acting like a pinko troublemaker" and everyone goes away angry at each other.
There's something to be said for spaced repitition...mom always said it was the best way to learn something, and what would you say we've all learned as a country? *in zombie voice* IRAAAAAAAAQQ....9/1111111111111111...WWWWWMMMMMMDDDDDDD'S...Then all of a sudden some aggrivating KID starts saying, "wait a sec, nothing had anything to do with anything". To which we reply as a country "How do you have time to read all those papers?! Don't you have a job? We've all been busy with our 9 to 5. All we can do is watch a little tv here & there and this is what we've been told, this is the president we like." To which the stupid kid replies: "But that president is wrong. What he's been doing is bad. Everything you've been spoonfed is B.S." Then the adults reply "Screw you, you should be drafted. Get a job and stop acting like a pinko troublemaker" and everyone goes away angry at each other.
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Of all the things to teach a child, DOUBT is the most important (or so I've heard, lord knows my dad did his job (at least in that respect...the slacker))...
So what would you say based upon your observations as an american citizen over the last 3 years? That the powers that be have gone out of their way to connect and phrase "9/11" and "Iraq" together? Or simply discuss them seperately? Even if there's no subliminal message, I believe phrasing the two together over and over and over and over has it's effect. And I believe that those broadcasting know this and have used it to advantage. The tv is a powerful tool and works in ways that many people haven't thought to comprehend. So far I think the most dangerous threat to our government is the thought of the masses collectively turning their tv's off...(good thing THAT'll never happen...)
Or I'm crazy.
So what would you say based upon your observations as an american citizen over the last 3 years? That the powers that be have gone out of their way to connect and phrase "9/11" and "Iraq" together? Or simply discuss them seperately? Even if there's no subliminal message, I believe phrasing the two together over and over and over and over has it's effect. And I believe that those broadcasting know this and have used it to advantage. The tv is a powerful tool and works in ways that many people haven't thought to comprehend. So far I think the most dangerous threat to our government is the thought of the masses collectively turning their tv's off...(good thing THAT'll never happen...)
Or I'm crazy.
Okay, now we're getting...uhh...."somewhere" 
So if we are battling terrorists "everywhere", what, *exactly* is the utility of battling them "there" specifically? Particularly in light of the facts that for the most part we're not really battling "them" "there", "there" isn't really where "they're" from, and prior to our invading "there", it was one place less that we had to battle "them".
You stated that fighting them "there" means that we don't have to fight them "here", which is patently false. We still have to fight "them" "here" *regardless* of what's happening "there", except that the battle "there" is sucking up our resources and leaving us less capable of handling them "everywhere" else.
This may be the most confusing post I've ever written....
So if we are battling terrorists "everywhere", what, *exactly* is the utility of battling them "there" specifically? Particularly in light of the facts that for the most part we're not really battling "them" "there", "there" isn't really where "they're" from, and prior to our invading "there", it was one place less that we had to battle "them".
You stated that fighting them "there" means that we don't have to fight them "here", which is patently false. We still have to fight "them" "here" *regardless* of what's happening "there", except that the battle "there" is sucking up our resources and leaving us less capable of handling them "everywhere" else.
This may be the most confusing post I've ever written....
Eghad,
Let me chime in with this little gem:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
You want to know who's bright idea this was? These are the folks.
Also, it's just a matter of time before the Feds start considering us "terrorists". May as well get used to the idea...
Let me chime in with this little gem:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
You want to know who's bright idea this was? These are the folks.
Also, it's just a matter of time before the Feds start considering us "terrorists". May as well get used to the idea...
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Oh snap slash, did you really just introduce PNAC to the thread?? I don't even know how to begin discussing that effectively...where to begin?
If they didn't have everything on their website, I think people would call us liars for saying "A project for a New American Century" even exists...
If they didn't have everything on their website, I think people would call us liars for saying "A project for a New American Century" even exists...
Part of the justification of the continued conflict (and originally beginning of it) in Iraq, Afghanistan, supporting Israel, and keeping troops in Saudi will never be understood by those who have safely lain on their fat backsides here in the states and never fired a shot in conflict, . . . nor even prepared to do so.
No, . . . you won't understand it, . . . profess all you want, . . . though you may not be stupid, . . . you are ignorant of the concept of the war in general, . . . and specifically the ones we currently fight.
#1. Yes, contrary to popular hollywoodism thought, . . . there has not been a successful terrorist attack on the continental US since the 9/11 event. The events in Spain and Germany were directly tied to a lacadasical government attitude toward terrorists.
#2. Yes, fighting the terrorists in far away places does cost money, . . . it would cost money here, . . . as well as the collateral damage possibly being your house, your garage, your son, your daughter, your mother, etc. Though I personally value all lives as potentially equal, . . . those Islamacists who have passively watched while their mother, brother, father, son, daughter, friend, etc. sat and made IED's in the kitchen or launched attacks from the back yard, . . . and said nothing: they deserve every .50 cal round or mortar that lands in their house or in their person. They are culpable in their inaction if not in their action.
#3. Until the USA decides to put up SOME KIND OF barrier along all 20 some thousand miles of borders, . . . we are susceptible to attack by a faction of people who have no conscience, . . . who kill men, women, children, young or old, . . . for some obsure 7th century child rapist named Mulehammered, . . . and who would cast the entire world back to 650 AD given the chance. These same individuals do not want to assimilate with you, . . . they want to ERADICATE you, . . . kill you, . . . kill your sons and daughters, . . .
#4. If you think they are such a wonderful bunch of humans, . . . worthy of setting down and discussing the merits, . . . get your carcas over in Bhagdad and saunter down to the local mosque, . . . tell them their jihad is wrong, . . .you want to educate them. You'll lose your head over that one!
(rant off, . . . time for lunch)
May God bless,
Dwight
No, . . . you won't understand it, . . . profess all you want, . . . though you may not be stupid, . . . you are ignorant of the concept of the war in general, . . . and specifically the ones we currently fight.
#1. Yes, contrary to popular hollywoodism thought, . . . there has not been a successful terrorist attack on the continental US since the 9/11 event. The events in Spain and Germany were directly tied to a lacadasical government attitude toward terrorists.
#2. Yes, fighting the terrorists in far away places does cost money, . . . it would cost money here, . . . as well as the collateral damage possibly being your house, your garage, your son, your daughter, your mother, etc. Though I personally value all lives as potentially equal, . . . those Islamacists who have passively watched while their mother, brother, father, son, daughter, friend, etc. sat and made IED's in the kitchen or launched attacks from the back yard, . . . and said nothing: they deserve every .50 cal round or mortar that lands in their house or in their person. They are culpable in their inaction if not in their action.
#3. Until the USA decides to put up SOME KIND OF barrier along all 20 some thousand miles of borders, . . . we are susceptible to attack by a faction of people who have no conscience, . . . who kill men, women, children, young or old, . . . for some obsure 7th century child rapist named Mulehammered, . . . and who would cast the entire world back to 650 AD given the chance. These same individuals do not want to assimilate with you, . . . they want to ERADICATE you, . . . kill you, . . . kill your sons and daughters, . . .
#4. If you think they are such a wonderful bunch of humans, . . . worthy of setting down and discussing the merits, . . . get your carcas over in Bhagdad and saunter down to the local mosque, . . . tell them their jihad is wrong, . . .you want to educate them. You'll lose your head over that one!
(rant off, . . . time for lunch)
May God bless,
Dwight
So where is the proof that winning the war in Iraq will stop fundamental islamic terrorists? Even Bush and his crew are not that naive.
If we had eveloped a comprehensive energy plan after the first Arab Embargo we might not be fighting in the Middle East.
Exactly how long have the Israelis been fighting terrorists? Have they eliminated the terrorists yet?
If we had eveloped a comprehensive energy plan after the first Arab Embargo we might not be fighting in the Middle East.
Exactly how long have the Israelis been fighting terrorists? Have they eliminated the terrorists yet?
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Why, it's almost as if violence only breeds more violence...
Dwight..."god" bless you too. Alright, you've found out that they wish us death, harm, pestilence, etc...but would anyone in the class to go back a little farther and ask "WHY"? Why would they be willing to die to strike at us. What events/situations may have precipitated that? Besides their fanatical devotion to an alleged child molestor? Here's a hint, it doesn't have much to do with how badly they hate the sweet sweet smell of our freedom.
Dwight,
Nice try, but I'm willing to bet I've killed more Iraqis than you have.
You can bluster all you want, but until you can back it up with facts it's just hot air.
Didn't we just thoroughly bust this "rationale" (if you can even call it that) a few comments upstream?
If "fighting them there" really meant we didn't have to "fight them here" then we wouldn't still be dealing with terrorism worldwide. We wouldn't be currently on 'OMG everybody panic' terror alert status. We wouldn't be re-routing airliners all over the place and confiscating people's poli-dent.
Your basic premise is hogwash. We *are* fighting them over there and guess what? We *still* have to fight them here.
Find a better line.
Nice try, but I'm willing to bet I've killed more Iraqis than you have.
You can bluster all you want, but until you can back it up with facts it's just hot air.
Didn't we just thoroughly bust this "rationale" (if you can even call it that) a few comments upstream?
If "fighting them there" really meant we didn't have to "fight them here" then we wouldn't still be dealing with terrorism worldwide. We wouldn't be currently on 'OMG everybody panic' terror alert status. We wouldn't be re-routing airliners all over the place and confiscating people's poli-dent.
Your basic premise is hogwash. We *are* fighting them over there and guess what? We *still* have to fight them here.
Find a better line.
I am sorry, gentlemen, . . . but you miss the point entirely. There is no comprehensive strategy to "win" the war, . . . there never can be, . . . simply because the Islamofascists are just that, . . . Islamic idiots with a fascist agenda, . . . brought on by previous capitalist/secular fascists whom they overthrew, . . . and now we have been listed into that group due to the "sinful way we live", . . . in the eyes of the followers of Ayatollah Khomeni and others.
There is a "win" strategy, . . . but it would entail turning Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and various and sundry areas of SouthEast Asia into nuclear waste fields, . . . something no one wants to do.
In the mean time, . . . survive, . . . by defeating them one bomber at a time, one RPG at a time, . . . while training the Iraqi's to take over and let us exit.
The only "winning" we can do is the "winning" we have done since they buried that child rapist some 1300 + years ago, . . . fight and win for this generation and hand it over to the next one.
Yes, . . . that is what Israel has had to do on and off for the last 3500 or so years of recorded history. They lost a bunch 60 years ago, . . . but they got part of their homeland back that was stolen from them by the Italians 1900 years before.
Instead of listening to the pinings of Kennedy, Gore, Clinton and the rest of the Plutonic left wing, . . . get your history books out, . . . see what has happened before, . . . how it was handled, . . . you might get a real grip on what is happening now.
May God bless,
Dwight
There is a "win" strategy, . . . but it would entail turning Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and various and sundry areas of SouthEast Asia into nuclear waste fields, . . . something no one wants to do.
In the mean time, . . . survive, . . . by defeating them one bomber at a time, one RPG at a time, . . . while training the Iraqi's to take over and let us exit.
The only "winning" we can do is the "winning" we have done since they buried that child rapist some 1300 + years ago, . . . fight and win for this generation and hand it over to the next one.
Yes, . . . that is what Israel has had to do on and off for the last 3500 or so years of recorded history. They lost a bunch 60 years ago, . . . but they got part of their homeland back that was stolen from them by the Italians 1900 years before.
Instead of listening to the pinings of Kennedy, Gore, Clinton and the rest of the Plutonic left wing, . . . get your history books out, . . . see what has happened before, . . . how it was handled, . . . you might get a real grip on what is happening now.
May God bless,
Dwight
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Dwight, I hate to say this but I honestly feel that people such as your self and your outlook are the cause of many of the world's problems.
So by your own admission, anything short of that is a "losing" strategy. Do me a favor and go take the place of any of my friends fighting against that one ied/mine/rocket at a time. As for training the iraqi's...I've heard that it'd be easier to teach a room full of monkeys to type the extended works of shakepear.
Boy, that's a bush strategy if I'd ever heard one. If it could be "won", it wouldn't NEED to be passed to our sons. (are we still worrying about germany?) To be put more accurately, you might have better said "Fight and keep it going for this generation and hand it over to the next one." Bush has already mentioned this not ending until well after he's left office. (and he's still got 3 years to go. WW2 didn't last much longer than that!) Way to clean up your own friggen mess...
But feel free to listen to the oh-so-educated pinings of bush & company...Ummm..k.
And "God" bless you too...
So by your own admission, anything short of that is a "losing" strategy. Do me a favor and go take the place of any of my friends fighting against that one ied/mine/rocket at a time. As for training the iraqi's...I've heard that it'd be easier to teach a room full of monkeys to type the extended works of shakepear.
Boy, that's a bush strategy if I'd ever heard one. If it could be "won", it wouldn't NEED to be passed to our sons. (are we still worrying about germany?) To be put more accurately, you might have better said "Fight and keep it going for this generation and hand it over to the next one." Bush has already mentioned this not ending until well after he's left office. (and he's still got 3 years to go. WW2 didn't last much longer than that!) Way to clean up your own friggen mess...
But feel free to listen to the oh-so-educated pinings of bush & company...Ummm..k.
And "God" bless you too...
To Dwight55...
If you're referring to the Muslim prohpet Mohammed, then by flaming and condemning a religion without knowing anything about it all you are doing is perpetuating blind hatred without looking at things objectively. Thinking like that and bashing other people's religion is EXTREMELY UN-AMERICAN. Yes it's true, if this is a nation of freedoms and equality, then why should Christianity have preferential treatment? Would you take offense if someone insulted your religious prophet? I'm sure you would. From the prejudiced remarks you've made. If you really thought Muslims were evil, how come the millions that live in America aren't making home-made pipe bombs, rpgs, and AK-47s ready to kill every "infidel"? Like it or not, Muslims are part of the latest mix in America's melting pot, if you don't like it find another country. (No point in telling Muslims to "go back where they came from" no one really has any validity in saying that except for Native Americans.) Islam is a religion that doesn't choose by ethnicity, anyone can be Muslim, much like anyone can be Christian. Sad fact of the matter is, Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same god in different ways yet what a pity that throughout history the three of them never entirely got along.
Epyon
P.S: It is my understanding that you are a veteran are you not? I would think that you'd have higher regards for freedom, and would try to understand that everyone has a right to equality and freedom from religious persecution. Also, let it be known, America isn't fighting terrorism alone, other Muslim countries such as where I'm from, Bangladesh, are also fighting it. I'm sure Malaysia and Indonesia are also doing their best to stop terrorism in their own countries, they are also predominantly Muslim. Want to be specific on the roots of terror? Look to the wahabi movement, much of the terrorists follow those ideals.
If you're referring to the Muslim prohpet Mohammed, then by flaming and condemning a religion without knowing anything about it all you are doing is perpetuating blind hatred without looking at things objectively. Thinking like that and bashing other people's religion is EXTREMELY UN-AMERICAN. Yes it's true, if this is a nation of freedoms and equality, then why should Christianity have preferential treatment? Would you take offense if someone insulted your religious prophet? I'm sure you would. From the prejudiced remarks you've made. If you really thought Muslims were evil, how come the millions that live in America aren't making home-made pipe bombs, rpgs, and AK-47s ready to kill every "infidel"? Like it or not, Muslims are part of the latest mix in America's melting pot, if you don't like it find another country.
(No point in telling Muslims to "go back where they came from" no one really has any validity in saying that except for Native Americans.) Islam is a religion that doesn't choose by ethnicity, anyone can be Muslim, much like anyone can be Christian. Sad fact of the matter is, Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same god in different ways yet what a pity that throughout history the three of them never entirely got along.Epyon
P.S: It is my understanding that you are a veteran are you not? I would think that you'd have higher regards for freedom, and would try to understand that everyone has a right to equality and freedom from religious persecution. Also, let it be known, America isn't fighting terrorism alone, other Muslim countries such as where I'm from, Bangladesh, are also fighting it. I'm sure Malaysia and Indonesia are also doing their best to stop terrorism in their own countries, they are also predominantly Muslim. Want to be specific on the roots of terror? Look to the wahabi movement, much of the terrorists follow those ideals.
Sounds like ol' Dwight here is taking a page right out of Osama's playbook.
Italians? WHAT Italians? Oh, I get it; you mean the ROMANS. And by homeland are you referring to the biblical Canaan, which the Hebrews conquered, under the command of Joshua? (maybe)
Good idea Dwight, and don't just use a single source. And btw using history to justify acts of aggression puts you on the same level as your "Islamacists".
I disagree. I think if you isolate the extremists from their support base, they will wither and die on their own.
At least, that seemed to work pretty well against every other terrorist organization we've eradicated. You know...kill terrorists faster than you create them?
Thanks for validating my suspicion about the encroachment of fascism tho'. Now we all know how long we're expected to forfeit our rights...
"I think if you isolate the extremists from their support base, they will wither and die on their own."
Slash, I think the people of Northern Ireland would disagree with you. The British seemed to creat terrorists faster than they could eradicate them. The problem, at least for the time being, was solved by negotiation.
badbob
Slash, I think the people of Northern Ireland would disagree with you. The British seemed to creat terrorists faster than they could eradicate them. The problem, at least for the time being, was solved by negotiation.
badbob
Last edited:
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
How many other terrorist organizations have we eradicated? Not disagreeing, I simply don't know of any. And since when have been able to kill more than create? I thought we proved the futility of that strategy in vietnam...