Bush backing gun control measures

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The real problem is voter apathy. "Slick" got elected twice because only about a third of the eligable voters in this country bothered to accually vote. If we could manage to get the other two thirds policically active it wouldn't matter who was in power because the will of the people would be completely overwhealming. No politician of any party could ignore that kind of pressure.
We are losing our rights not so much by power hungry government, but rather by our own failure to get involved and give a damn. Our system of government was designed to give the people a voice in how things are done. When the majority of the people fail to speak up and use that voice the powers that be are given a free hand to do what they want.
Instead of worrying so much about who is running for what, concentrate on getting your friends and neighbors involved in the political process. We have a voice, but first we have to learn to speak.
 
Nebob,
Short answer is “No.”

Let’s consider all the people who consider the issue of gun control v. RKBA of prime
importance and, for the moment, they set aside all other political goals.

1. Voter A wants gun control, knows the Democrats will give it to him so he votes for a
Democrat. He’s not a coward. I vehemently disagree with his goal of gun control.

2. Voter B does not want gun control. He believes the Republicans are the best chance to
avoid gun control. He’s not a coward.
- He may be misinformed or inadequately informed. I will try to show him he is voting
against his goals.
- He may believe anything other than a Republican vote is a wasted vote.
---- I believe he is wasting *his* vote. He could be voting *against* gun control instead
of voting for *less* gun control.
---- If those people who espouse RKBA would only vote that way we could eliminate the
whole issue in one election.
---- If he cares to debate the issue, I’ll debate. If he wants to be left alone, I’ll leave him
alone. But if he bad mouths me saying my non-Republican vote is a vote for Gore, I’ll
bite back.

3. Voter C does not want gun control. He votes for one of the two major parties because
he is afraid of voting for someone he believes would return more freedom to
Americans than either of the two major parties. Among other names, I would call him a
coward for not voting for his goals.

I have no respect for Americans who are afraid of liberty and freedom.
---------

I’ve expressed my views as best I am able at the moment. If I find what I have written
does not represent my views, or if my views change, I will have to correct what I have
written.

My point remains.

If we value our Right to Keep and Bear Arms,
If we believe we must preserve our Second Amendment to have ANY effect on other
issues,
Then ANY vote for gun control is inconsistent with our stated goal.

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Real Americans vote their conscience, not their fears.
 
I've always liked A Nation of Cowards.

Just good reading. I'm sure it has been here before, but I can't search!

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Aye an' a bit of Mackeral settler rack and ruin Ran it doon by the haim, 'ma place. Well I slapped me and I slapped it doon in the side and I cried, cried, cried.

The fear a fallen down taken never back the raize and then Craig Marion, get out wi' ye Claymore out mi pocket a' ran doon, doon the middin stain picking the fiery horde that was fallen around ma feet.

Never he cried, never shall it ye get me alive ye rotten hound of the burnie crew. Well I snatched fer the blade. O my Claymore cut and thrust and I fell doon before him round his feet.

Aye! A roar he cried frae the bottom of his heart that I would nay fall but as dead, dead as 'a can be by his feet; de ya ken?...and the wind cried back.

Thank you.
 
If we only have two choices (as some of you have said), and both of them are bad, then it's time to start the hangings in Washinton DC until they get the message that the people will retain control.

Note the absence of smiley faces...

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

http://www.countdown9199.com




[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited August 30, 1999).]
 
Lest we forget about Pop!

(quote)
March 15, 1989, a day that will live in infamy. President George Bush at the urging of his
Drug Czar William Bennet, temporary bans the import of more than 40 semi-auto rifles.
Colt Industries withdraws from public sale all versions of the AR-15, in support of the
President. So it began.
(unquote)
Taken from: http://www.recguns.com/IIID2b123.html
 
Dennis, I too am fairly new to this site so I am painfully unaware of the things that went on before I got here However BEFORE EVERYONE gets worked up let us look at all the options, a non-unified front WILL result in a victory for Al " I want all your Guns" Gore, we will be literally shooting ourselves in the foot. George W. Bush has an outstanding track record where being Pro-Gun really counted. Judge a man not by what he says but by what he does...As a Pro gunner you have the ability to provide him input as well as your conditions for support by writing or E-mailing George W Bush at,( www.georgewbush.com/) Remember that when you send them to him use a little forethought, let him know that the RKBA is an important issue to you and that your support for him and his campaign will weigh heavily on how well he stands up when the timing is crucial. Right now he has a commanding lead over Al Gore or anyone else for that matter. There are no viable third party candidates If I thought that there was one that had an honest chance I would be all over it. Lets get some input from Our NRA/GOA brothers and see how they rank him before we go running off and splitting up the conservative vote to the point that we push Big Al into office, United we Stand , Divided we fall, Hmm where have I heard that before?? His Track record speaks volumes!! Remember when we turned over the House and the Senate in 94 ?? It was due to Pro gunners getting out to vote,staying unified to the point it was decisive! It sent the Democrats scrambling and defecting to the other side. Concentrate on getting or keeping your pro-gun Senator/Congressman into/in office that will support the new President. We have to win the White house, Bill Klinton lied and appeared to be a Moderate democrat UNTIL he got into office and then he slammed over to the left and went full bore, right up until re-election where he became Mr. Moderate again....Turn about is fair play!! We defeated ourselves by allowing ourselves to be split on candidates, or splintered as a whole. Throw your support behind the winning horse and lets keep a Republican Senate/House and Win the White House as well! Send the letters, send the e-mails, keep the pressure on and we will get the candidate we need , a pro gun, pro second amendment G.W. Bush. Stay strong in spirit and stay unified, for ONLY a unified front will win the day!!I am of the opinion that once the candidates are selected and the choices are clear deliberately throwing away your vote as some sort of protest on a candidate that can't posibly win is ludicrous! All I am saying what good is the strength of your conviction when the tallies are in and the GREATER of the two evils has taken office?? Where will you turn then? and who will be to blame?? Don't be too quick to sell someone down the road there is plenty of time ahead... I am sending that E-mail now as should the rest of you! Stay rational..Stay Strong, Stay unified..El Jefe



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...Those that are willing to give up some of their rights for a little security deserve neither...Benjamin Franklin

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe
 
El Jefe,

So your suggestion, in fine, is that we all rally behind a gun-grabber?

No thanks.

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"Taking a long view of history, we may say that
anyone who lays down his arms deserves whatever he gets."
--Jeff Cooper
 
Conneach,

Your choice is either:
Candidate A - who genuinely wants to disarm you, and has a proven anti-RKBA track record
Candidate B - who is saying whatever he needs to to get elected, and who has a largely pro-RKBA track record

If you go for candidates C-Z, or go fishing instead, it statistically works out as a vote for candate A.

If you support RKBA, your only practical choice is B (Bush); any other vote or inaction favors A (Algore).

Yeah, it sucks. them's the breaks. Scream and holler at Bush (please!) but when it comes to voting time, support him.

Just like Clinton said whatever was needed to get votes so he could push a socialist agenda, Bush is saying what he deems politically necessary to get into the position where he can do what he really wants; may tick you off in the process, but it will likely work more in our favor than against.
 
Ctdonath: Thanks for laying out the rationale behind the NRA's "slow but certain defeat" strategy. Now, for extra credit, explain to the class how a rational Republican who has no personal stake in the gun control debate will react to the knowlege that gun owners will vote for a gun grabbing Republican if they're not as bad as the gun grabbing Democrat they're running against. Will they:

A: Redouble their efforts to fanatically defend the right to keep and bear arms.

B: Not react at all.

C: Position themselves to be ever so slightly less anti-gun than their opponent, in order to retain the votes of gun owners while currying favor with the anti-gun media.

And, second question: Will the end result of this voting strategy on the part of gun owners be:

A: Preservation and restoration of their right to keep and bear arms.

Or,

B: Certain loss of that right in a relatively short period of time.

Remember, a passing grade is required to retain your Second amendment rights!



[This message has been edited by Brett Bellmore (edited August 31, 1999).]
 
Ctdonath, thanks for the support, brett and Coinneach...Give me a break. We all know it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. We all need to speak loudly and get his attention and pray that his previous record/actions speaks louder than words. G.W.Bush's previous record on the gun issue has more than proven him out, and so has Al Gores, We know what we will get with Gore We KNOW what he wants and we KNOW that Sarah Brady and Co. is going to be more than willing to help him in the process. You do Not have another VIABLE candidate do you?? One that has a snow balls chance in hades of beating BUSH or Gore?? So what is your answer?? Protest vote?? voter apathy?? Go fishing?? What?? You would rather ensure defeat by being devisive than take a reasonable chance with a leader who's track record already speaks volumes?? AND who already has a Commanding lead over ANY Opponent?? That is absurd! Why don't you turn in your weapons now and take up knitting or something, (until they ban Knitting needles that is...) If you have a reasonable, workable solution that is more viable than the one I've presented then lets have it! I'm with you, but until then you play the cards your dealt, I refuse to toss away my vote, protest vote in the spring and cast your vote for Bush in the fall. Get onboard or give me a viable workable solution to our problem, I am open to suggestion but the old addage applies, if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. El Jefe

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...Those that are willing to give up some of their rights for a little security deserve neither...Benjamin Franklin

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe



[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited August 31, 1999).]
 
There is nothing wrong with voting in the Republican primary as a gun owner and Not voting for GW. This will Not get AL Gore elected. Let the Party know you will not be satisfied alone if a Republican wins the presidency. He MUST also be inclined to reestablish the validity of Constitutional Rights and vow not to abridge any others in the future. He won't have to aknowledge us if we don't speak up and say it ain't about him.You and I still may vote for him in the end and he shall win, but let's make him earn it a bit even if he thinks we owe it to him. Which we don't.
 
Let's not forget what DADDY did to the NRA. Let's not forget his POLITICAL statement against the NRA with his public rejection of the NRA.

Dennis, where are you? I'm ready to go third party instead of having more of the Bush's crap!
 
Frank,
I'm just sitting here in amazement at the same old, "We must vote for gun control as promised by George or we could get gun control as promised by Al."

Thanks for jumping on board, Frank. Only 20 million to go before we beat BOTH major parties! :D :D (C'mon over and I'll pour ya a Shiner Bock!!)
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El Jefe,
(Modest title! :D :D)

Vote as you please. So will I. But both Bush and Sen Lott have promised (in public statements) more gun control measures and promised more "compromise" with the Democrats. So don't complain when you get gun control - you asked for it.

If Georgie is saying whatever he "needs" to say to get elected, then he has become a liar. That's not the Texas way. Ride, Shoot Straight and Tell the Truth. Let the chips fall where they may.

If GW is compromising HIS ethics to be a "viable" candidate, what will he do to us once he is elected? Have a sudden flash of integrity? Sorry, Jefe, I can't buy it. I have come to believe his stand on CHL was merely a gambit to whip Ann Richards. (Glad he did it! But I mistakenly thought he was an honest man.)

I will vote against gun control. If just 1/2 the 80 million guns did likewise, we would win in a landslide. Guess RKBA just means too much to me (to many of us). I'm through voting for the compromisers.

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Real Americans vote their conscience, not their fears.




[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 31, 1999).]
 
I agree! Make him earn it....make him believe it. Once he is in let him shake the hand of Charlton Heston/Wayne La Pierre on stage in front of millions like Clinton did with Sarah Brady when he won. Lets get him there and ensure he knows who put him there, 1 team 1 fight.
As far as the other Issue goes I am not voting for Daddy, he had his turn. and neither are you or anyone else here, the arguement is a specious one at best so lets drop it shall we? United we stand divided we fall.....

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...Those that are willing to give up some of their rights for a little security deserve neither...Benjamin Franklin

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe
 
Guys, get Alex Jones tape,"Police State 2000",at infowars.com and then we can understand Bush , Gore, and all the other whores in government and what they ALL have planned for America. Alex aint no fat cat Russ Limbaugh and he searches for the truth.I bet money that this tape will get you fencesitters off the fence and into the camp of the patriots who see what is in store for us all.
 
And make copies of this tape which Alex has authorized. Pass them around to people; esspecially local cops who must be educated before the balloon goes up.
 
El Jefe,

Ooops! What was that?
(quote)
As far as the other Issue goes I am not voting for Daddy, he had his turn. and neither are you or anyone else here, the arguement is a specious one at best so lets drop it shall we? United we stand divided we fall.....
(unquote)

Patrick Henry cautioned us that we have no way to judge the future but by the past.

"Specious"! I don't believe it is "specious" to think if a grown dog bites you his grown offspring will do the same!

Give us a sign, El Jefe Grande, that Jr. will not do us dirt! Already explained his CHL stand, let's find out what ELSE Jr. has done!

Is he a member of the NRA? What has he said other than "innocent" people should be allowed to own guns?

"INNOCENT"??? That's court ruling! Or a description of a naive child. I don't need to have no stinking court decide I am "innocent" enough (on a scale of what??) to have a gun.

Sorry, Charlie. Bush may be more dangerous to us than Gore. At least Gore (in his breathing moments) tells us he is for gun control. Bush says the same thing in a ring-around-the-Rosie manner.

Thrrrrp! to them both. The Democrats have NOT brought us gun control all by their little selves. What happened to the Contract With America? Another verbal contract just as valid as my veterans benefits! Thrrrrp! Again.

Dang it, man! Hemorrhoids aren't supposed to have callouses!!

And united is good! Let's get united and vote to eliminate past gun control travesties instead of wimping out and voting for slightly diluted gun control! C'mon over the the RKBA side instead of the compromisers!

((aside: specious.... specious my foot....))



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Real Americans vote their conscience, not their fears.
 
Dennis,
I am willing to bet that I am every bit as pro RKBA as you. Give me a better option, something viable and I will give till it hurts. I hate the lesser of two evils theory as much as the next guy. I am not so naive as to believe that a vote for none of the above will get anyones attention, in fact it will do little more more than ensure that whatever chance I did have gets flushed down the toilet. what you are telling me and the others is that given some chance or no chance you will choose ...Not to choose?
I have been in the Military service for 19 years. I was in Desert Storm and I have left my family behind for months at a time (6 Minimum) to do my nations bidding when someone elses rights were being infringed upon. I live for God, Country and Family. I am sworn to fight all enemies foriegn and Domestic. It all comes down to the proper Tactics. I don't believe that America would know what to do with a candidate that stood up and Said...I am pro Gun, Pro Life, I am cutting taxes and reducing the size of government....As a Christian I abhor the fact that anyone must embellish or prevaricate in order to get their foot in the door. That is why I am advocating that we ensure a unified front that stands behind the frontrunner ensuring that he knows where his bread is buttered, I personally believe him to be more pro-gun than he lets on. I also believe that through our dessention we will only hasten our own demise and I am unwilling to go quietly into that good night....

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...Those that are willing to give up some of their rights for a little security deserve neither...Benjamin Franklin

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe
 
As reported by Reuters, last Friday GWB said he supports raising the legal age for purchasing a handgun to 21, and banning "large ammunition clips". Full text is at: http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/national/0831/d_rt_0831_24.sml

Okay, so now we have proof, right from the horse's as...err, mouth, that GWB is anti-gun. He said about the gun control measures, "I support them all, they are reasonable measures". He declined to take a position on the "gun show loophole".

So, let's not mince words about how "pro-gun" GWB is, on the contrary he is admittedly pro-gun-control. All the folks who post that a vote for anyone other than GWB is a vote for Gore are merely arguing matters of degree, not matters of principle. Please don't tell us the son of a Bush is the answer to our prayers. Talk about specious. It sounds to me like he's the best player on the other team.

El Jefe said, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem", a notion I agree with. I'm just confused as to how voting for an admitted victim-disarmer is being part of the solution. Unless you actually want more gun control, albeit a little slower and a little cheaper than the Dems would provide it on their own.

I've said it before (many, many times) and I'll say it again: Political pragmatism got us where we are today. If we continue to vote for "viable" candidates who are, to use the words of the Republican apologists among us, "the lesser of two evils", ie, evil, then we soon will have no reason to discuss any gun issues except memories.

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"The right of self-defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." Henry St. George Tucker

[This message has been edited by Ipecac (edited August 31, 1999).]
 
Had to go there didn't ya Dennis?? By the way isn't Ipecac that stuff that makes you throw up?? LOL sorry couldn't resist, you make some good points however like I said Give me and the others a more viable solution, one that will deliver the one two punch we are all looking for! WHO is the right candidate?? or the candidate of choice?? Give me one that has an even Chance of winning and I am there for you. Banner waiving and door knocking the whole way. I just refuse to ensure a democratic win by being devisive. TELL ME how a NON Vote Or a vote for a non-Viable candidate ensures or promotes our position in any way? when it comes down to an obvious choice between Bush and Gore Who do you suggest we vote for?? None of the above?? and that gets us where?? So far I've heard plenty of complainin' with no solutions, are we to throw our arms up in disgust and walk away?? Continue to throw our protest vote to candidates that don't have a snowballs chance in Hades of winning??Our odds of undoing and rectifying what has been done over the last 8 years are much better with Bush than with Klinton Jr. and his HCI backers. Give me something I can put my arms around and we are good to go, you and I can toss back a few and have a good time doing it! With that I will leave you with this quote from President George Washington...."Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth, and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firemarms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensible. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firemarms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour." George Washington's address to the second session of the First US Congress. My how far we have fallen.

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...Those that are willing to give up some of their rights for a little security deserve neither...Benjamin Franklin

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe



[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited September 01, 1999).]
 
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