Burglar Shot Through Door

B

BarryLee

New member
Dunno about FLA, but here in VT he would be looking at charges...

Old country lawyer told me back in the 60's...Drag em across the threshold...
 
He would be done here in CA.


I'm sure he is in for quite a long road.:eek:

EDIT:

He is 82, he road may be shorter than previously perceived.


Good work though, he took a scumbag off the street at 82. He SHOULD get an award.
 
Old country lawyer told me back in the 60's...Drag em across the threshold...

No offense, but that's a very outdated mentality and terrible advice. Drag marks, ballistics, neighbors watching you drag a still-bleeding corpse into the house, etc., all add up to you likely going to prison.
 
The FL castle law includes your property, not just the actual home. So I can't see him being brought up on charges. Myself, I would never have shot theough the door. Too many things that can go bad with that.
 
Wow, I lovw the comments from the Police Chief,
"This 82 year old resident was able to do something the criminal justus system has been unable to do, He puts this burglar out of business this morning"
 
He is 82. I heard he was going to pull a chair up to the door and wait till it opened but he thought he might fall to sleep, so...

Kidding! I wonder if the thief ever knew what happened to him? Couldn't the homeowner have made barking noises or just said in a demonic voice "I s e e y o u" to make the badguy run off?

I'm just sayin'...
 
Hiker 1 said:
Salmoneye said:
Old country lawyer told me back in the 60's...Drag em across the threshold...
Click to expand...

No offense, but that's a very outdated mentality and terrible advice. Drag marks, ballistics, neighbors watching you drag a still-bleeding corpse into the house, etc., all add up to you likely going to prison.
Click to expand...

I'm going to second Hiker 1's advice, for all the reasons he/she listed.

If one legitimately shoots another person in self defense, DO NOT tamper with the evidence.

At the very least it makes it appear you believed you weren't justified, at the worst it looks like you're trying to cover up a murder.
 
He should be fine... The vbiolent felony act of committing home in vasion was underway albeit not completed...

Brent
 
The laws vary from place to place, some places look at it such that you are not in danger until the bad guy comes through the door, others recognize that you are at risk when they try to come through the door. Others even allow you to defend yourself before the bad guys reach the door, if you feel you are at risk.

If you don't know, perhaps you ought to wait till they break in and set foot inside...hoping that isn't too late, of course. Shooting through the door? I wouldn't, but then I'm not 82 yet, either. Besides, I don't want steel sheathed wood to slow down my rounds before they hit!:D

Here's a fine example of a question for everyone who worries and argues about "overpenetration" of their defensive ammo! What if you HAVE to shoot through a door, and you have chosen a round with the least "risk of overpenetration"? Aren't you putting yourself at greater risk by doing that? Is the risk of the round failing to penetrate the bad guy worse than the risk of what it might hit after it exits? Can of worms there, I'm thinking....

Yes, the old advice to "make sure they fall inside the house" (meaning drag them in if necessary) is today, BAD ADVICE. A century ago, even a half century ago, when the local cops would just look at the scene (assuming there was no obvious evidence like a blood trail or easily visible drag marks) and decide if it was a good shoot or not, are long behind us.

Dead men do tell tales today. But they seldom lie. Doing anything that could be considered tampering with the scene is "lying" to the cops, and implies that you were NOT certain you were justified in shooting.

I can imagine some very, very limited situations where that might be a justifiable thing (such as, its winter, you wound the guy, he's no longer a threat, and you drag him inside so he won't freeze to death before the ambulance gets there, but he expires anyway....) something like that may be excused, but under more ordinary circumstances, if you do ANYTHING once the threat is over, its not going to be looked on favorably. Don't drag them inside, don't move them, or any physical evidence beyond what is needed for your own safety (like kicking his gun out of his reach).

I would also council against having a drink to "calm your nerves" while waiting for the cops to show up. Really BAD idea. Don't do it.
 
A competent attorney works within the state statutes as they are written, cases have already been decided in court (case law is decisions/precedence set by courts within the state), or by new case law. First, it's not ALL decided by what's written in the state statutes-passed by the legislature. Previous court cases in that state are very relevant, make sure you're familiar with those cases-before you set your opinion.

A question for general discussion...what kind of land, property, business, or residences are close to the front door? Next, consider a combination of factors together including the perps criminal record (if any), any ill intent by the perp that can be proven in court regarding weapons on his person, wire cutters, hammer, duct tape, knives and other things that might feed a case against the man outside the front door.

If the victim outside the front door is an innocent victim-knocking at the door, get a striped suit ready for the homeowner.
 
Florida prosecutors and courts have in recent years been quite generous in defining self defense. I guy in a ski mask with tools that can be used not only for breaking in, but for striking and stabbing, is highly likely to be determined to be a significant threat to an 82-year-old man. I personally would want to warn someone off before firing, and the article is so short that it doesn't rule out the possibility that a warning was given, but either way my money is on the old guy being OK legally.

There was a case in my community around Thanksgiving that was the opposite - a man came home and surprised a burglar. The burglar apparently retreated to the bathroom when he heard the homeowner come home, but then shot through the bathroom door when he heard the homeowner approach. The homeowner died from a single shot from a .25. The homeowner was not armed, but even if he was I am not sure it would have done any good, as it seems to have been a completely surprise shooting.
 
At our MO CCW class last night (getting my 3rd state in the collection...), the instructor was talking about a similar case last year, where it may have been a good thing the homeowner didn't have a gun; she might have shot, and regretted it.

In this case, pounding on the door was followed by the sound of glass breaking. When the woman tried to use her phone, there was static, and evidence of a call in progress.

Turned out some teenagers had a rollover car wreck in a rural area, where the houses were a mile apart. One kid was critically injured, and his friends were frantically trying to find a place where they could call 911.

My point being, law or no, it's a good idea to have at least some idea of who you are shooting at. Unlikely things sometimes happen.
 
Originally Posted by Hiker 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmoneye
Old country lawyer told me back in the 60's...Drag em across the threshold...
No offense, but that's a very outdated mentality and terrible advice. Drag marks, ballistics, neighbors watching you drag a still-bleeding corpse into the house, etc., all add up to you likely going to prison.
I'm going to second Hiker 1's advice, for all the reasons he/she listed.

If one legitimately shoots another person in self defense, DO NOT tamper with the evidence.

At the very least it makes it appear you believed you weren't justified, at the worst it looks like you're trying to cover up a murder.
Click to expand...

:sigh:

One of the drawbacks of the internet is that you can't see tongues firmly planted in cheeks...

The POINT of the Old Country Lawyer's 'advice', was to NOT shoot them unless they were inside and a threat to you and yours...
 
If a BG crosses the threshold, and is a physical thread to life, or limb within the four walls, announce, "Hey Big Guy, I got something for you." just before you neutralize him. That will explain the confused look on his face when they pry him off the floor. :confused:
 
Kidding! I wonder if the thief ever knew what happened to him? Couldn't the homeowner have made barking noises or just said in a demonic voice "I s e e y o u" to make the badguy run off?

I'm just sayin'...
Click to expand...

Too many citizens have been killed and victimized by people they thought were simply "burglars" or "thieves", but instead turned out to be murderers.

How can a citizen tell the difference?

They can't. Until it's too late.

I will give the citizen the benefit of the doubt over the criminal every time. I don't care what the criminal intent actually is, because there is no way for the citizen to know, again, until it's too late. Since criminals don't respect the law, or personal property, I assume they don't respect human life either, and are therefore worthy of being subject to the immediate use of deadly force.
 
Not to get too far afield, but there was a fairly "famous" incident, may have been in South America, of a hit squad arriving at the door of a man's house at o-dark thirty, his spying them through glass in or around the door, and dispatching them while they were still on the porch. We recreated the event at an IDPA match, with replaceable carboard panels in the door, and clear plastic sheets as the door sidelights, and even though the stage recreated an actual event, some competitors took us to task for creating an "unrealistic" stage, or one that required them to do something - shoot through a door - that was not a valid defensive technique, etc., etc.
6:53 of this video, if interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf6Fpq2aI5M
If I could see an armed/dangerous someone outside my door, I don't know that I'd hand the initiative to him by revealing my presence - he can shoot through the door, too! - but I think waiting in ambush if/when he did come in might adequately split the difference.
 
On Court TV there was a case of guy shooting a teenager through the door.

1. Halloween - kids TPing stuff and making noise.
2. Homeowner runs outside with a canoe paddle and yells at them.
3. One kid says to others, we should go apologize.
4. Goes to door - knocks or tries handle - not clear.
5. Home owner says that he was reaching into to closet for something made of wood and steel to chase off evil kids trying to break into house. Wood and Steel? :confused:
6. It was a shotgun, and surprise it went off when he was picking it up and the good teenager has no head.
7. Forsenics show that the gun was shouldered when fired through the door. Not picked up.
8. Guy gets some kind of 2 year misdemeanor killing a person sentence. Lucky.

Might have a detail wrong.
 
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