bumpimg 223 shoulder

would I be better off just spending the extra and getting the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die?
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The Forster bump dies are not small base and don't size the case body diameter at all; they are a form of neck size-only die, that also lightly bumps the shoulder back to center it and the neck up
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when I bump the shoulder my case body bulges, 'UNLESS!' I have case body support
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Based on the above I'd say not likely what you want . Even if The Forster will bump the shoulder you would still need to know if it will bump it more then the the dies you already have .
 
Based on the above I'd say not likely what you want . Even if The Forster will bump the shoulder you would still need to know if it will bump it more then the the dies you already have .
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I am the only reloaders that can determine the die's ability to size a case back to minimum length/full length size. My shell holders have a deck height, then there is that part about determine if the case won or the press won. I am the only reloader that uses the companion tool top the press, the feeler gage. And, I understand, anywhere I use a feeler gage I can use a dial caliper or height gage and on occasions I can use the dial indicator.

then there is the perceived problem, will the shell holder accommodate the head space gage when determining its ability to size the case to minimum length when minimum length means from the shoulder /datum of the case to the case head.

F. Guffey
 
Is this whole thing just a matter of not being able to push the shoulder back with an existing die or has it developed into something more complicated than that? If just unable to push the shoulder back, I have encountered that on several occasions and the easy answer is to grind off a portion of the mouth of the die, thereby allowing the die to be screwed down farther against the shell holder. No doubt to some that sounds like you are really ruining the die (or may not be practical if the die is carbide) and may suggest grinding down the shell holder instead. But with a standard die, this is quickly and easily done with a small grinding wheel attached to an electric drill. Using a file takes a little longer of course.
 
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If I were to grind anything down it would be the shell holder . No need grinding on the more expensive part to replace .

The OP said he tried using a feeler gage shim to shim the case in the shell holder to fix the need for a small base die but it did not work . I wonder if he has tried shimming the case up in the shell holder while using the small base die . I can shim my 223 case up as much as .008 in the shell holder . If the OP can shim the case up .006+ using the small base die while at the same time making hard contact between the die and shell holder . If that does not bump the shoulders back enough I believe there is more to this then a simple shoulder bump issue .
 
In order, till one works:
- Grind down the top of the shellholder to allow a bit more sizing.
- Buy and try the small base die.

Also make sure, if you haven't already, that you haven't slightly collapsed the shoulder when you were sizing. I managed to do that recently, and the shoulder bulge was so small that I didn't even notice it until I went to chamber one.
 
Grind down the top of the shellholder
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I don't think this will happen its a progressive press so the shell holder has 5 locations that would have to be ground the same amount.....

Is this whole thing just a matter of not being able to push the shoulder back with an existing die or has it developed into something more complicated than that?
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Nailed it. Its just that simple.

determine if the case won or the press won
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Case 1 Press 0

If the OP can shim the case up .006+ using the small base die while at the same time making hard contact between the die and shell holder
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In one of my responses you will see that I have tried this to no avail.

The Forster bump dies are not small base and don't size the case body diameter at all
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Not too worried about that at this point I can FL resize if the shoulder will hold position. Controlling the bump is the important part.

I have encountered that on several occasions and the easy answer is to grind off a portion of the mouth of the die
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That would appear to be the easy fix but this is about learning and control. I could do an easy fix but in the future can I repeat and control the movement?

This is most likely overkill. but it has been enlightening as well. I am still looking for an answer to the only question asked in this thread. Is the Redding Small Base Body Die a good idea or would I be better off just spending the extra and getting the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die?

The closest we've come, came from F Guffy.
"If someone in my small group of builders/reloaders informed me he purchased a Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing die I would respond with "SERIOUSLY?" or 'FANTASTIC'. "
 
I answered the question in a combination of post . Not all dies size down cases the same amount . Untill you try the dies you will not know which one will work . I also made the point that my Redding dies size down cases smaller then others . So if you are looking to bump your shoulders back more then you can now . The redding die is what I'd try because as Unclenick pointed out the Forster dies only bumps the shoulder a little while the Redding die will size it down as far as you can get it .

The reason you're not getting a specific answer is there are not going to be many guys that have both those dies . Most of us stick with one manufacture when we can . I'm a Redding guy while others are Forster guys . I would never try the Forster bump neck die because my Redding die pretty much does the same thing .
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...ull-length-sizer-die-small-base-223-remington
 
Metal God

I understand the S type die will do this as well. but I asked about this:http://www.midwayusa.com/product/37...e-body-die-223-remington?cm_vc=ProductFinding. I do have a set of Redding dies and I was not impressed enough to spend that kind of money to keep buying.
Don't get me wrong they are fine and work well, just for my needs they do not increase the quality of the end product enough to justify the cost. I am not apposed to Redding nor am I pro Forster more neutral on both. I believe spending 72.99 + bushings at 20+ each is excessive at this time. The part I'm really wondering about is 35 bucks that gives me 65 bucks for powder/primer/bullets. I would have to fix 1,860 cases to pay for your die. Or just 700 with the part I'm talking about.
 
I had to remove a couple thousandths off my shellholder for reliable chambering in my .300blk. Some types of brass would not go. It's a very simple way to set shoulder in farther if your already down to the shellholder.
 
Ah.....yes. I could see that being difficult.

Not sure what kind of tooling you have, but a couple thousandths off the bottom of the die would have same results.....wait.......that one was hard to think about, I should sleep, or get smarter.
 
Just buy the small base die and be done with it. You've tired us out...or at least me
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rtpzwms, that is another way to say "You could aggravate the horns off of a Billy goat".

F. Guffey
 
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First the Redding type S die used with out bushings is a body die so you get what you want anyways . You then will for a life time always have the option to use it as a FL bushing die which you should because it's designed to center the neck over the case body .

Second , I did not realize you were loading on a progressive until a couple post ago . I'd say although not impossible , loading the quality ammo you seem to be going for on an AP is harder then it's worth . IMO you clearly have to much press deflection to size your cases as precisely as you'd like . You really should not be having any problems bumping your shoulders back enough to work in your rifle .

Then there's the most common powders used for high accuracy loads . They tend not to throw/meter all that well so that's another thing the AP is going to have trouble with .

but this is about learning and control. I could do an easy fix but in the future can I repeat and control the movement?
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Nice hefty single stage press and competition shell holders does the trick for me . I size my cases , datum to head to with in +/- .001 and most are with in +/- .0005 using a single stage press and competition shell holders . Used correctly all press deflection is removed and press wins every time . OK almost every time ;)

You've tired us out...or at least me.
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I have to say , I'm getting there my self . ;)
 
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rtpzwms :

Hope 603 and I didn't hurt your feelers :)

It just started to seem like you knew what you wanted and wanted someone to say good idea rather then the opinions you were getting . I thought this thread was good with some pretty darn experienced reloaders giving advice . Some times you have to take all advice and draw a conclusion as to what's best for you rather then having a poster just say "get this" . I believe this thread gave you that ability .

Is the Redding Small Base Body Die a good idea or would I be better off just spending the extra and getting the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die?
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So to be specific , Neither is a good idea as pointed out in this thread .

GET THIS
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...ull-length-sizer-die-small-base-223-remington

Hope you work it out

MG
 
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