Bullets in Lyman Manual

T

TazensteinGP100

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I'm brand new to reloading- haven't even bought a press yet. I know I want to and will eventually. I've been saving factory brass and picking up components as I've found them on sale.

I also bought the Lyman Manual 49th edition. I have Xtreme bullets copper plated FP 125 gr that I grabbed while they were on sale (I included link below to be specific). My question concerning the manual is this-

The only 125 gr bullet that the Lyman manual has data on is a 125 jacketed hollow point. Is it acceptable to use this data for my 125 gr xtreme bullets?

I'm very new to this so I'm assuming this is a pretty basic question. I appreciate any help. I do plan on buying a 2nd manual to cross reference all data with. Plus when I decide on a powder I will use that powder manufacturers data.

Thanks


http://www.xtremebullets.com/38-125-FP-p/xc38-125fpcan-b0500.htm
 
Maybe - but Don't

As a new reloader, I would NOT suggest making that substitution until you learn a whole lot more (and maybe never).

First of all, when you post here, please make sure to include important information needed to analyze your question - like what caliber will you be loading?

Secondly, while plated bullets are often an excellent choice, I do not suggest starting with them - some can be a little fragile in the plating and are easily damaged during bullet seating or crimping. That statement is times 10 if you are loading for a revolver where you will use a roll crimp.

Thirdly, JHP bullets generally have different seating depths than FP bullets - the void in the nose of a hollow point bullets often causes the total bullet length to be a bit longer than a flat point of the same weight. So you need to carefully consider the type of load, expected pressure, and best to have actual bullet length and seating depth measurements for BOTH bullets before you decide if substitution is safe. While it is usually safe to use FP bullets with data for same weight JHP bullets, as a new reloader you should NOT BE GUESSING.

Go buy some bullets that EXACTLY match your chosen load data to start. You have not wasted your money on those plated bullets - you will soon be able to use them with safety and confidence - just do not start with them.
 
The loads will be different for JHP vs FMJ bullets. A JHP of the same diameter and weight will necessarily be longer than a FMJ. Think of it this way: the lead is of the same density, so if you take it out of the hollow point, you have to stack it back up at the back of the bullet. Thus, a JHP of the same OAL will have a smaller cavity behind the bullet for combustion, so the pressure will be higher with the same amount of powder.

In your case, by loading a FMJ with JHP recipes, you would be lowering the pressures by enlarging the space behind the bullet. It should be safe from high pressure events, but you are moving closer to squibs at the lower end of the range.

There is a lot of this sort of information in the front part of reloading manuals. Spending some time studying the articles will help you understand some of the pressure issues and thus help you with such decision making. It isn't always possible to find a recipe for the exact bullet you are using, but understanding the pressure issues and erring on the safe low-pressure side is the way to start.
 
The only 125 gr bullet that the Lyman manual has data on is a 125 jacketed hollow point. Is it acceptable to use this data for my 125 gr xtreme bullets?
Click to expand...

I assume these are for 38 or 357.

Yes, but for 357 magnum, work up from starting load, and stop about half way to max as plated bullets often cannot be driven as hard as jacketed.

For 38spl the full range of jacketed data will suffice.


Ignore OAL and seat so crimp is in the cannelure.
 
Sorry guys, should have been more thorough.

These will be loaded into 38 Special cases. Shot out of a Ruger GP100 (4" barrel)

All i'm really going for is a decent economical load for the range.
 
If you are loading for 38spl, then you'll be fine with jacketed data. Don't load below jacket minimums.
 
After going back to xtreme's website I found this concerning load data "Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp"


The 2 suggested powders I have found are Bullseye and Win231.

My Lyman manual gives me a range for these powders of....

Bullseye 3.2 (suggested starting) up to 4.4 (max load grains)
Win231 3.9 (suggested starting) up to 5.1 (max load grains)

These are for the 125 grain jacketed hollow point where in that range do think would be the ideal starting point?
 
I tell all new reloaders that will listen; find a specific load (powder, bullet, primer) in your reloading manual before you buy any components, and then only get what you have data for. Because you'll get stuck with components and no load data for those specific components. If you want to use plated bullets go to the manufacturer's website and find their recommendations for loading. I believe the "mid range jacketed velocities" quote is for maximum loads and is kinda misleading/vague.

I've only used about 1,000 plated bullets and use lead bullet data. Worked fine with no squibs and just as accurate as my cast bullets.

Another "problem" with new reloaders and plated bullets is the crimp. Do your bullets have a cannalure? What do you plan on shooting them in?
 
"...loads will be different for JHP vs FMJ bullets..." No they aren't. Jacketed is jacketed. Same data.
However, X-Treme bullets are not jacketed. They're plated. Plated bullets normally use cast bullet data. X-Treme's sound like the plating is thicker.
"...the ideal starting point..." Reduce the max load by 10% for the start load for any cartridge. Mind you, Alliant's site shows 4.5 of Bullseye(4.4 is close enough) as max for a jacketed 125 runs way under 1500 fps out of a 6" barrel. 914 fps as tested. Your GP won't get anywhere near that with a 4" barrel. (Been shooting one myself since they first came to Canada about 35 years ago.)
 
While not wishing to contribute to the delinquency of a handloader (Cooper), I have never heard of a published .38 Special load that would cause any trouble in a .357 Magnum revolver. You have about a 100% safety margin on chamber pressure. Bullet material is pretty much lost in the noise.
 
Like Jim Watson points out, if you're shooting these in a GP100 you can use any of the data from the starting load up to the max load for 38 special and should not see any high pressure signs.

What kind of load are you looking for? If your looking for a light target load, start at the low end. If your looking for a load that replicates self defense ammo start closer to the max. What is the velocity given in the Lyman manual for the max loads? I'm sure it's well under 1500 FPS for 38 special

For new reloader you might as well start a hair above the minimum charges listed. The biggest problem to be concerned with when using light loads is that the bullet can stick in the barrel. If you follow the correct loading procedures it would be impossible to stick a bullet using those starting loads.
 
Thank you everyone who has taken time to reply.

So would I be better off using Jacketed load data or Lead load data? Is one more comparable to copper plated?

For these I'd like a target load for the range. So I think i'm probably more on the light side. I dont carry and I'd probably just buy a box of defense rounds if that becomes a priority.
 
As TimSr said for 38 Spec. use JACKETED data and do not go below jacketed minimum.

Plated bullets use copper for the plating Jacketed bullets use Gilding Metal (95/5 to 90/10 Copper / Zinc). Copper has more resistance in the bore than gilding metal and much more than lead due to the different friction coefficients. At the low pressures 38 Spec. works at, if you use low end lead data you risk getting a bullet stuck in the bore and it will be a royal pain to drive it out.

At the higher pressures that 357 Mag works at, you go to mid range jacketed data as max due to that same higher resistance in the bore which translates to higher pressures.

Plated bullets run the gamut from a whisp of copper on a soft lead core to a thicker plating on a harder alloy core. As such they have different top velocity windows they work at before you strip the plating when the go down the bore. You also do NOT want an agressive roll crimp with plated bullets, you want to iron the belling out of the brass and maybe just a little more but that is all.

I suggest you search the threads as we have extensively discussed Plated bullets and several brands are mentioned and even sub types within the brands. You will find that certain information is fairly consistent within the threads.
 
My suggestion in this case would be to put those plated bullets aside for now and find some 158gr lead SWC to start with. Usually a 100 count can be found fairly inexpensively. Then after a couple 100 loads is when I would start to think about those plated bullets.

Every reloading book I've seen has data for the 158gr SWC. Completed they are great practice/target loads and pleasant to shoot.

Also the 38/357 is very forgiving to work with and learn on. This is what I started and learned on.
 
Thank you everyone who has taken time to reply.

So would I be better off using Jacketed load data or Lead load data? Is one more comparable to copper plated?

For these I'd like a target load for the range. So I think i'm probably more on the light side. I dont carry and I'd probably just buy a box of defense rounds if that becomes a priority
Click to expand...
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You have two answers about load levels, one says use lead data (actually more than one), the other says use jacketed data. This is typical of reloading forums, you'll get answers all over the spectrum. Also the "mid level jacketed" formula is for max. loads.

So, why don't you find out loading techniques/levels from the fellers that make your bullets? Do a little research and at least check out the manufacturer's website...

Seems like plated bullets are pretty confusing to new reloaders...:confused:
 
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Answer would be that many new re-loaders do not understand the difference between plated and jacketed.

Also many of the smaller bullet makers do not offer load data, only suggestion.

Berry's offers a few that do not match common profiles, such as their thick plated hollow base. No info other than COL and load with comparable published weight bullets.
 
HP-38

Hodgdon has 2 options for a 125 gr bullet for HP-38.

With a hornady xtp they suggest starting at 4.3 and not exceeding 4.9.
With a cast LRNFP they suggest starting at 3.8 and not exceeding 4.8.

This might be too simplistic of a solution but starting at 4.5 seems like a pretty safe option seeing as its within both ranges. It also seems to fit the rule of thumbs of low-mid Jacketed and higher end lead loads.

For the record I have contacted X-treme bullets and when I get official word from them I will post which might help people in the future.
 
I'm too new to reloading to comfortably offer technical advice, but I can help you feel confident that you have found an economical, fun first shot at this. I've shot a few thousand .38 reloads using HP-38 and Berry's 125gr plated FP.

It's been a great first step and I've been very happy with the price per round vs factory ammo. Of course, I shoot 3X as much so I haven't saved a single dime, but I'm having a great time. :)

Thanks to all of you for the great info I've found here.
 
With a hornady xtp they suggest starting at 4.3 and not exceeding 4.9.
With a cast LRNFP ( LEAD ROUND NOSE FLAT POINT ) they suggest starting at 3.8 and not exceeding 4.8.
Click to expand...

After going back to xtreme's website I found this concerning load data "Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities.
Click to expand...

So based on Extremes recommendation your max load is going to be around 4.5 and reduce that by 10% for your start load which would be around 4gr

So I'd start at 4gr and work up to 4.5 or 4.6gr based on the info you've given so far .
 
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