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Bullet Weight in
- Thread starter Cola308
- Start date
Velocity needs to be converted to foot-pounds of energy. You need at least 1000 ftp-Lb for white tails. A convenient calculation is Energy = mass x velocity squared divided by 450,240. So take your calculator and punch in the stats, e.g., for a 25-06, .270 or 30-06"
25-06: 120 gr at 2800 fps = 2800 x 2800 x 120 divided by 450,240 = 2,090 fl-lb
.270: 130 gr x 3100 fps = 3100 x 3100 x 130 divided by 450,240= 2775 ft-lb
.30-06: 150gr x 2700 fps = 2429 ft-lb.
The question is, can you get your 25-06 up to 3100 fps? Even if you did, the 120gr is not as heavy as the 130gr .270.
How fast can you get that 30-06, 150 gr bullet going? Try 2900 fps:
2900 x 2900 x 150gr divided by 450,240 = 2802 ft-lb. Now you beat the .270.
But how accurate is your 30-06 at 2900 fps?
The bottom line is any caliber will do the job. Just pick a load that is accurate in your rifle.
25-06: 120 gr at 2800 fps = 2800 x 2800 x 120 divided by 450,240 = 2,090 fl-lb
.270: 130 gr x 3100 fps = 3100 x 3100 x 130 divided by 450,240= 2775 ft-lb
.30-06: 150gr x 2700 fps = 2429 ft-lb.
The question is, can you get your 25-06 up to 3100 fps? Even if you did, the 120gr is not as heavy as the 130gr .270.
How fast can you get that 30-06, 150 gr bullet going? Try 2900 fps:
2900 x 2900 x 150gr divided by 450,240 = 2802 ft-lb. Now you beat the .270.
But how accurate is your 30-06 at 2900 fps?
The bottom line is any caliber will do the job. Just pick a load that is accurate in your rifle.
Last edited by a moderator:
black mamba
New member
Since you don't list the cartridge you will be hunting with, I'll just say that in most medium calibers (.25 to .30) I'd recommend a medium weight bullet. In smaller calibers the heavier bullets, and in larger calibers the lighter bullets.
.243 = 100 gr
.257 = 100 gr
.264 = 120 gr
.277 = 130 gr
.284 = 140 gr
.308 = 165 gr
.323 to .358 = 200 gr
.375 = 235 gr
Velocity should be consistent with the range you are shooting. In deep woods, with few shots exceeding 100 yds, 2000 fps is enough. If you are shooting in open country, with shots up to 300 yds, then you need more like 2600-3000 fps. And for long distance shots, 3000 + helps a lot with the trajectory.
.243 = 100 gr
.257 = 100 gr
.264 = 120 gr
.277 = 130 gr
.284 = 140 gr
.308 = 165 gr
.323 to .358 = 200 gr
.375 = 235 gr
Velocity should be consistent with the range you are shooting. In deep woods, with few shots exceeding 100 yds, 2000 fps is enough. If you are shooting in open country, with shots up to 300 yds, then you need more like 2600-3000 fps. And for long distance shots, 3000 + helps a lot with the trajectory.
Don Fischer
New member
Velocity needs to be converted to foot-pounds of energy. You need at least 1000 ftp-Lb for white tails. A convenient calculation is Energy = mass x velocity squared. so take your calculator and punch in the stats, e.g., for a 25-06, .270 or 30-06"
25-06: 120 gr at 2800 fps = 2800 x 2800 x 120 divided by 450,240 = 2,090 fl-lb
.270: 130 gr x 3100 fps = 3100 x 3100 x 130 divided by 450,240= 2775 ft-lb
.30-06: 150gr x 2700 fps = 2429 ft-lb.
The question is, can you get your 25-06 up to 3100 fps? Even if you did, the 120gr is not as heavy as the 130gr .270.
How fast can you get that 30-06, 150 gr bullet going? Try 2900 fps:
2900 x 2900 x 150gr divided by 450,240 = 2802 ft-lb. Now you beat the .270.
But how accurate is your 30-06 at 2900 fps?
The bottom line is any caliber will do the job. Just pick a load that is accurate in your rifle.
I have a different formulas for energy but it worked out the same as yours.
25-06 w/120gr 2 2800fps
Vel x vel 2800x2800 = 7840000
devide x 7000 # grs in a pound 7840000 - 7000 = 1120
devide by 64.32. specific weight of gravity 1120-64.32 = 17.41
times bullet wt in grs 17.41 x 120 =2089.55
That's pretty much the same thing!
Whatever you can get 2600-3100 fps muzzle velocity from, but with marginal rounds, you will need to think this through more.
For example, in 357 mag, you will never see 2600 fps, but a 158-180 gr driven over 1200 fps should work well if designed for full penetration.
On the other end, a 270 WSM doesn't need a full load and would be fine with a light load behind a 120-140gr bullet at 3100fps.
The reason velocity is key is because most bullet constructions perform from 2200 - 2800 fps. All coppers extend the top end about 300 fps and rarely blow up, but still, at 50-300 yds, you want to land in the optimal zone..
So, Cola....what caliber?
For example, in 357 mag, you will never see 2600 fps, but a 158-180 gr driven over 1200 fps should work well if designed for full penetration.
On the other end, a 270 WSM doesn't need a full load and would be fine with a light load behind a 120-140gr bullet at 3100fps.
The reason velocity is key is because most bullet constructions perform from 2200 - 2800 fps. All coppers extend the top end about 300 fps and rarely blow up, but still, at 50-300 yds, you want to land in the optimal zone..
So, Cola....what caliber?
Jim Watson
New member
A 170 grain bullet at 2200 fps.
Wait! That is the factory specification for .30-30 which for a long time was the class leader in what were known as "deer and black bear" rifles.
Wait! That is the factory specification for .30-30 which for a long time was the class leader in what were known as "deer and black bear" rifles.
Don Fischer
New member
Mid to upper range weight bullet's. Lighter weight bullet's driven with to much velocity tend to do more damage inside and can be a disaster if meat is hit. Lot of people are consumed by velocity but it's not always your friend. I have what works for me pretty close to figured out.
243 I only make varmit loads with it.
25-06 117/120 gr bullets
6.5 129/140 gr bullet's
7mm depends on the cartridge. 7mm mag 160gr, 7x57154 gr 280 150 gr
308 165 gr but in Alaska I did load up some 180 gr bullet to take the 308
along on a fishing trip.
243 I only make varmit loads with it.
25-06 117/120 gr bullets
6.5 129/140 gr bullet's
7mm depends on the cartridge. 7mm mag 160gr, 7x57154 gr 280 150 gr
308 165 gr but in Alaska I did load up some 180 gr bullet to take the 308
along on a fishing trip.
cdoc42 said:Velocity needs to be converted to foot-pounds of energy. You need at least 1000 ftp-Lb for white tails.
Tell that to a bow hunter getting maybe 50-70 ft-lbs out of an arrow at impact, or to anyone who's killed deer with a BP muzzle loader's ball or a .357 Magnum handgun or carbine. There is no simple "at least" available here. Everything depends on the bullet form. The arrow is an extreme example where the shape of the projectile nose is affecting some elements of the lethality mechanism differently from how an expanded bullet shape does. A pointed FMJ would be somewhere in between, though whether it tumbles or not affects how in-between it is.
It is probably worth noting the origin of kinetic energy as a measure of lethality. In the early 1700's, Dutch experimenter Willem s' Gravesande dropped brass balls into soft clay from various heights and found the ball's depth of clay penetration proportional to the height it was dropped from. Since gravity accelerates the ball at about 32 ft/s², he concluded penetration was proportional to the square of velocity. After kinetic energy's definition was settled upon almost a century later, the fact it was also proportional to the square of velocity lead to it being considered a penetration predictor and penetration was associated with lethality.
As you are probably aware, lethality prediction, particularly as it relates to handgun "stopping power", has come to be divided into two mechanism schools, one the penetration school championed by the late Dr. Martin Fackler and Duncan McPherson, and the hydrostatic shock school, exemplified by the oft criticized Strasbourg experiments. I won't resolve any of that grief for anyone. However, it does point out that whatever the equation for stopping ability one comes up with, the optimal range of energies will probably differ with projectile design and with the sectional density and momentum that go along with the energy, as they affect the penetration as well. For example, two similar shape projectiles that have the same impact energy, such as military ball in 9 millimeter and 45 Automatic (both loaded close to 400 ft-lbs in the TM's), the one with the greater momentum (the .45 has about 30% greater in momentum when the ME's match) will tend to penetrate a soft target, like ballistic gelatin, about 30% further. This is because, just as energy increases with the square of velocity, so does fluid drag at subsonic velocities, tending to slow the higher velocity of the two projectiles more rapidly. This is probably the root of the big-slow-projectile school of thought.
My suspicion is, all theories of stopping power aside, there probably is a different optimal velocity range for all bullet designs when achieving their average shot placement position that will maximizes speed of humane kill. Will the KE at impact factor in? Yes, but it won't be the only factor. Will there be a minimum KE? That really depends on shot placement. On another forum we have a moderator who is retired UK police who once investigated the death of a woman killed by a .22 rimfire at about its maximum extreme range. The shot was a miss fired upward at a squirrel in a tree about a mile away. The bullet struck the poor woman in the carotid artery at about 240 ft/s. Approximately 5 ft-lbs of energy at impact. Is that the minimum energy for killing human beings? No. It would likely have been lower if the bullet were pointed. Shape, sectional density, momentum and shot placement all change the energy requirement.
Cola308 wrote:
When reloading for whitetail deer what is the best weight to use for whitetail deer hunting.
- What caliber are you shooting?
- What distance are you shooting?
- What is the approximate weight range of the animal?
I have gone after the local whitetail (75 - 95 pound average) using a .223 Remington with 60 grain bullets fired under 100 yards. Shot placement is critical, but it can be done and done reliably.
cdoc42 wrote:
You need at least 1000 ftp-Lb for white tails.
Remember that energy figures using the familiar formula E = 1/2 M * V * V are based on the velocity at a point in time. If you are shooting at a deer 200 yards away the energy computed based on the muzzle velocity is meaningless; you need the velocity 200 yards downrange. You can get this from ballistic tables or software.
If your using a 30 caliber, a 150 grain will suffice. Deer are not hard to kill, you don't need a premium bullet either. Even though I reload most of my ammunition, I still use 150 grain, factory, power points whether I'm using my 3006 or 3030. Every deer I have shot with my o6 has gone down with one shot. I have also used Hornady 150 interlock reloads. They both work fine, never had a problem knocking down a deer. Bottom line, shot placement is what matters.
This is probably the root of the big-slow-projectile school of thought.
The old big projective school of thought came from the early days when (wait for it) they had big slow projectiles!
An extreme case being if you stand in front or a moving train going 10 mph. Squashed flat.
"...Velocity needs to be converted to..." Doesn't get converted. Velocity by itself does nothing.
A 130 will do nicely out of a .270 for Bambi. Which brand doesn't really matter. Usually best money wise to work up a 'do everything' load though. That'd be a 140. Jack O'Connor made the .270 famous by hunting every game there is(including big bears) with it. He used IMR4831. You must work up the load for your rifle though. There's no trying another guy's load. Isn't unsafe. Just won't likely be the most accurate out of your rifle. No two rifles will shoot the same ammo the same way.
A 130 will do nicely out of a .270 for Bambi. Which brand doesn't really matter. Usually best money wise to work up a 'do everything' load though. That'd be a 140. Jack O'Connor made the .270 famous by hunting every game there is(including big bears) with it. He used IMR4831. You must work up the load for your rifle though. There's no trying another guy's load. Isn't unsafe. Just won't likely be the most accurate out of your rifle. No two rifles will shoot the same ammo the same way.
Cola don't get to wrapped up in this, bambi is a pretty easy creature to kill and the 270 Winchester is a great choice to do it with. 130, 140, 150 all take deer every year in that caliber, as long as the shooter does his part and puts the bullet where it need to go. Jack O'Connor wrote volumes about the 270 using 130 grain bullets to shoot deer, and he shot his fair share.