Bullet too tight in 1858 REMINGTON

[Smokin_Gun]

Toilet seal rings are made from Bolwax ... not parafin or Bees wax ... they are colsest to beeswax than parafin ... they have Bolwax type on the boxes.

Uberti take ,.454" balls or conicals if you feel thasy are a too tight fit you probly have an alloy added to the pure soft lead or hardcast clip on wheel weight boolits. All my Uberti will take a .454" or a .457" ball or conical with soft lead.
Fact...

 

[Gatofeo]

Yeah, I stopped seeing real beeswax toilet seals about 15 years ago. Used to buy them regularly to make my own lubricant for smokeless powder pistol bullets.
Add a little transmission fluid and some Motor Mica powdered graphite and you were good to go. Can't recall the formula now.

Bees bred specifically for beeswax? Wow. New to me. Hope it's not artificial insemination ... talk about meticulous work!

I use .454 balls most of the time, but my Uberti-made Remington will take .457 balls with aplomb. A few years ago, at a sport shop going out of business, I got eight boxes of .454 and .457 balls made by Hornady and Speer for $9 a box. Not a fabulous buy, but set me up fine.

I recall seeing the honey with a bit of comb in the jar! Haven't seen that in years. As a kid, that was soooooooo cool to have! Cost more, but it kept my mouth busy with the chewing, so I guess my parents figured it was worth it.

But I could still hear of course, and frequently it was Grampa Gato observing to my parents, "Sumpin wrong with that boy. He likes the smell of wooden matches and enjoys throwing split-shot fishing sinkers at an old apple crate. Weird."

 

[arcticap]

How much wax do you use per cylinder/load?

Beeswax is usually not used in it's pure form because it's too hard. But rather it's mixed using Gatafeo's Best Lubricant recipe that can be found in the sticky at the top of the forum page:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207028

However the mutton tallow can be skipped and substituted with a 50/50 mix of beeswax/Crisco:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421007&highlight=recipe

And there are variations using similar recipes consisting of either beeswax/paraffin/mineral or olive oil/Crisco/tallow to make lube pills or lubricated wads or just plain over ball lube. The mixture can be adjusted to achieve the desired hardness to match the seasonal temperature and specific use:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425146&highlight=recipe

As much or as little can be used per cylinder depending on personal preference, the needs of the revolver, method of application and the type of powder being loaded.
Some folks cover the entire ball with lube and others only use a little bead around each ball, or only apply to every other chamber. Lube pills or lubed wads are most usually placed in every chamber under the ball.

 

[Shotput79]

R.E.A.L. 200 grain Bullets

I bought the Lee mold couple months ago to make my own 200 grain bullets. I did this to use them in my Walker to get all the punch I could get out of it. They load just fine in my Walker, also load straight in it. wanted to see if they would fit my 58 army, and 60 army. but could tell I would have to load them with the cylinders out of the revolvers to get them in the cylinders straight, not a big deal with the 58 army, just load up three cylinders and go on your way. To much trouble with the 60 army. So I'm going to use them in the Walker, and sometime in the 58 army. The Walker is so easy to take apart in the field, you can change the cylinders on the Walker as fast as the 58 Remingtons. Not the same with the 60 army revolver can't get those to come apart so easy with the wedge being tight as it is. The .454 rd ball is the only rd ball I use anymore in all my .44s guess I need to give the .457s a try in the Walker, and 58 army, will buy a box to see what the real difference is. If they work out better, I'll order a mold for them if I see the .454s work just as well I'll stick with them. That will save the money of buying another mold. Don't see any need to have all different size rd balls all over the place. Find out what works and stick with it.

 

[zippy13]

I've had good luck with the LEE 200-gr R.E.A.L, too. My gun hasn't been cut, so I load it off-gun with a separate press. The wads are from home punched dense wool felt. For lube, I use paraffin, beeswax (we kept bees) and lamb tallow. I get lamb suet from the livestock butcher, after the local fair, and render it into tallow.

 

[junebug_01]

Shotput79,
If the wedge is too tight in your 1860, the gun needs adjustment. The arbor is probably the incorrect length. The wedge should come out with just thumb pressure and should be as easy to remove the cylinder as your Walker.

 

[Gatofeo]

"I have a UBERTI 1858 Remington 44 cal. I have bought some sample bullets to try. I have loaded 1 of the 45 cal. R.E.A.L. 200 grain & 1 of the 44 Ruger R O A 220 grain conical in the cyclinder with 30 grain of pyrodex P. I thought I would try these out, but as tight as they went in I'M about scared to shoot them. Has anyone shot a tight bullet such as this?"
-- Dan PTTM

Getting back to your original inquiry. I got off-track and into beeswax. Sorry about that.

I believe your problem is one of using the wrong sized bullet.
The Ruger Old Army has slightly larger chambers than the Italian-made replicas. The Ruger requires a ball of .457 inch, while the imports typically use balls of .451 to .454 inch.
That's why the bullets, intended for the Ruger, are a tight fit in the Uberti Remington 1858.

Lee makes its conical bullet in two diameters, for this reason.
I wouldn't be concerned about shooting the bullets if they go in tight. Given the relatively low pressures of black powder and its substitutes, and the improved metallurgy of today's replicas, you shouldn't be anywhere near an overload.
Pressure is increased in relation to the resistance the bullet offers. Lead bullets don't offer much resistance; lead is pretty malleable. The lubricant in the bullet's grooves will help it go down the bore. You can put a little lubricant over the bullets before firing; it may help as well.

Now, if you'd loaded that revolver with copper jacketed bullets, you'd be in a whole new realm of resistance offered by the bullet.
And lest anyone suddenly perk up: it's not worth the trouble. It's been done for years. Generally, the revolver's chambers have to be opened to .451 or .452 inch, and it takes a lot of pressure to seat the jacketed bullet.
John Lachuk had quite an article about using jacketed bullets in cap and ball revolvers in Handloader's Digest No. 8, copyright 1978.
Though he raved about his results, I didn't see much advantage. And it seems to be that the rammer would have a tendency to push a hollow point's cavity closed.
He used very fine FFFFG powder with some loads. This faster-burning powder, coupled with the far greater resistance of the bullet, certainly created much higher pressures. FFFFG is intended for priming flintlocks, and very small-bore rifles and single shot pistols of .32 caliber or smaller.
Cap and ball revolvers are not so good at withstanding such high pressures, owing to their ignition system. The nipples allow a lot of gas to escape backward when you reach a certain level, blowing off caps and pushing the hammer back to half-cock in some instances.
If this happens, you're WAY over pressure.
Just thought I'd throw in this discouragement. Stick to plain, soft lead projectiles.

 

[CameronP]

Mutton Tallow

I was on Dixie's site recently and noticed that they were again offering Mutton Tallow ( for use in Gato's fine recipe).

 

[enyaw]

I'd like to say.....mutton tallow is a good lube and.......using a lube pill/grease cookie of wax/lube......any decent lube in the recipie works as well as the others.....when the lube pill/lubed wad is placed correctly right on top the powder under the ball in a cap&baller. Ask Elmer Kieth about it .....as he shot his "51" Navy with lubed wads under the ball right on the powder ......where they work the best to keep a barrel and chambers clean enough to retain accuracy and keep the cylinder rotating all day long.
Anywhooooo.....any decent lubey stuff works well when it's suspended in wax and melted and spread on the barrel walls by the heat of combustion .......and does that ahead of the powder burn/fouling so the fouling can't stick much to the barrel walls or the front of the cylinders arbor hole.
I placed a reply over where the Gentlman posted about an "1860 Army with a tight cylinder" and that covers it all if you care to read it. I typed it all out to be of some assistance and....with two shoulder injuries and can't type well at all I made the difficult effort.
Also.......Gateo is right about the wrong size bullet being used as stated in the beginnng of this post......
The Lee REAL bullet stands for "rifling engraved at loading". That bullet is made for muzzleloader rifles. It has to have a diameter of more than .450 inch and would be really tight in a cap&baller revolver.
The Lee Conicals would be the conicals to use. The .450 would be a good choice as stated above somewhere. The driving/sealing band of the .450 is close to .450 and the front driving/sealing band of the .456 is about .457-8.