bullet failure.....sort of

B

bamaranger

New member
I recovered the bullet from a whitetail I killed recently, so obviously, mission accomplished. The deer tipped the scales at 170 lbs, with 8 pts, a very good buck. Deer collapsed at the shot and was killed very cleanly. Distance was 50 long paces. The bullet struck just at the rear of the near shoulder blade, took out a rib, and raked forward to clip the lower edge of the spine, and was found high in the tissue under the off shoulder blade. The wound, especially on the near side, seems a bit ragged. The entrance hole is a bit elongated, and a small swath of hair was cut before the slug entered tissue. The deer was quartering away, but not overly so, as near as I could tell. The light was not good.

The bullet was a .30 cal, 135 gr Sierra flat base Pro Hunter, intended for the .30 Herret, but in this case, shot from my Ruger 7.62x39 MkII, a reload showing an honest 2100 fps plus on my chrono. I have killed other deer with this combo, as has bamaboy, with no complaints, but this is the first such slug we've recovered.

But this slug is not expanded in any fashion one would like. The bullet appears near intact, the nose showing a slight skew with a distinct curved detent just behind the tip. The detent is about half the curvature of a drinking straw, say. The lead at the tip is missing and gives the appearance of one of the steel cased import hollow points that are so common, but it is indeed a Sierra PSP. The heel shows a bit of deformation on one side, but the bullet can be pressed back into a spent case, where in fact it resides now on a shelf with other such treasures. I wish I could do a pic, but hope this description suffices.

I guess anything is possible, and any comments are purely speculation I realize. But I'd be curious to hear any comments......Did the quartering away aspect "tip" the bullet prematurely, or did I hit a limb or twig and the bullet landed skewed from the start, did the shoulder cartilege or rib tip the bullet ? Other bullet failure stories welcome as well
 
hole

It was not a true, rounded hole, more oval, but not too overly sized. See comments about hair. The wound track indicates the deer was quartered away possibly, but I did not think so much at the time of the shot.
 
I use the Pro Hunters a lot in the 140 Gr. 7mm configuration for my 7mm/08 and have had great results with it as far as accuracy and performance. I normally shoot my whitetails in the neck whenever possible ( 4 out of 5 this year), so recovering a bullet is not normally possible. I did shoot my last one of this year behind the shoulder as it was the only possible shot and the bullet left fragments of the jacket through the lung area. The core obviously went through and performed as it should have, but I would guess most if not all of the jacket spread itself in small pieces through the deer.
I guess the separation of jacket and core is not what we want from a bullet, but I will continue with them as they are accurate and seem to get the job done as expected. Bullets can sure do some strange things after they leave the rifle.
 
results

I've got no complaints about Pro Hunters overall, in my .308 hunting rifles, the .30/150 Pro Hunt groups well, and gives clear indication of expansion.

I'm inclined to believe I may have hit something (twig/limb) close the deer. I went back the next day and recovered my stand, spent case, and looked the site over very carefully, but did not see anything indicating I'd hit a limb. I was 20 feet up in a climber, so I suppose there was something high that I could not make out, but the lane looked clear to me, and there was noting apparent close the deer.

That curved dimple just behind the tip is very concentric and highly suspicious.
 
It was not a true, rounded hole, more oval, but not too overly sized. See comments about hair. The wound track indicates the deer was quartered away possibly, but I did not think so much at the time of the shot.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that.
I thought I read the whole post, but I must have gotten distracted. Re-reading the post, I seem to have initially read the first 3 sentences, gotten distracted, then come back and finished from the second paragraph on.
 
My first guess would be a twig close to the animal that may have changed it's course and thus the abnormal expansion/wound. The long swath of cut hair before the entrance shows excessive angle. If the shot was not taken at that much of an angle, something changed it's path.
 
You said it hit a rib. That is pretty substantial, and would explain the deformation. As far as the oblonged hole, that is normal if the animal was quartering, the bullet pushes then tears/rips the skin as it is penetrating. If you look at the hole from the angle the shot came from it will look round.
 
Without any actual pictures, what you are describing could fit a whole plethora of scenarios.

I am not sure I would concede that the bullet was yawing at impact based on the description given. Sounds like that maybe the deer was indeed more quartered away than you thought. The bullet immediately struck bone at a quartered angle, fouling/ruining the tip and preventing expansion, initiating a non-fragmenting tumble through the body and hitting bone along the way resulting in less than normal penetration. The slightly oval hole can simply be the quartered away angle of the shot.

That you didn't have good light to make your examination doesn't help.
 
butcher

Tomorrow I will butcher the quarters and pay attention to the near shoulder, though I had the distinct impression when I quartered the animal that the slug had indeed passed behind the shoulder blade. It might have clipped the very edge or flange where the blade is very thin.

I wish I could post pics....
 
Here's a thought...

Have you considered contacting Sierra to see if they would be interested in analyzing the bullet? I don't know if they would do it, but in this business, its not like you get a lot of opportunity to evaluate your product after its been put to its intended use.
 
I once used 130 grain 30-06 and had a big deer get away that was well hit.

Before and since no such problems with any 150 grain 30 bullets on deer.
 
"...this slug is not expanded in any fashion one would like..." Bambi get up and complain about it? Dead is dead. That bullet worked just fine.
"...Sounds like it was yawing (wobbling) at impact..." At 50 yards it would be. Hasn't gone far enough to stabilize.
Sierra doesn't make a .311" or the incorrect diameter .308" 135 grain Pro-Hunter anymore. Likely just say that if you called 'em. And Bambi would still be in the freezer.
 
I have used Sierra bullets off and on over the years. I had a weird experience with one of their 6.5 140 grain bullets on deer once. I figure it may have just been a fluke. As long as you don't start hearing a LOT of reports about them, I would just chalk it up as an oddball.
 
Is your bore on the rifle a .308? Most 7.62X39 rifles are .311 bore and I imagine if you'd switch to that diameter bullet you might see better performance. I'd be looking at the 125 grain Sierra PH bullet made for the 7.62X39.
 
more

I am a dionosaur with the computer....bamaboy says he will help at some point with a pic.

REgards the velocity.......the slug as originally developed was intended for the .30 Herret and labled SSP, indicating that my velocity of 2100 fps from the x39mm rifle is in the correct ball park for expansion. The bullet is no longer offered by Sierra. My Ruger MkII is at least 15+ yrs old and the early rifles (I've read) were bored .308. Only way to tell is to slug it, and I likely won't. Both .310 and .308 slugs shoot well enough.

Yeah, dead deer, mission accomplished "sort" of a bullet failure. I offer it up for discussion and comment, like all the stuff here. As a gereral rule, we all like to see our bullets expanded if that is what they are supposed to do.

Butchering yields that the bullet did indeed miss the shoulder blade and any tough cartiledge. Pretty ragged would channel from the start. The raking angle forward was more severe than I thought, the deer almost certainly must have been bladed more than I believed.
 
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