building a ar pistol

If I build with a barrel less than 16" and put stock on the buffer tube it is not a SBR it is a illegally configured pistol.
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That may be, according to your state laws, but, BATF is going to look at it differently.
 
rep1954 said:
rep1954 said:
You can constuct a registered pistol into a rifle configuration but it is still a pistol.
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Theohazard said:
Nope. Federal law would consider it a rifle at that point.
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I live in the state of Michigan and have purchased 4 stripped AR15 lowers and each time they were registered as pistols. If I sell one of the lowers in the state of Michigan no matter what configuration it is in at the time I am selling a registered pistol lower. No matter how I configure the lower legal or illegal the lower is still a pistol lower. If I build with a barrel less than 16" and put stock on the buffer tube it is not a SBR it is a illegally configured pistol.
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This thread is not about Michigan law. And your post made no mention of Michigan law. You simply stated your specific state law as if it applied universally.

But no; as far as the ATF is concerned, a pistol in rifle configuration isn't a pistol, it's a rifle. And no, a new stripped lower can't be sold as a pistol or a rifle, it's an other. If you want to talk about Michigan law, then that's apparently a different thing, but we're not talking about Michigan law here.
 
what would be the longest barrel I can put on my ar pistol? can i put a 14.5 inch barrel on it and still still call it a pistol?
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This is what the post is about, no mention of Federal law at all.

If you abide by your state and local laws you are a biding by federal laws already. And each individual state applies its own additional laws to that law.
It is irresponsible to indicate to someone that if they just follow Federal law and they are legal.
 
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Rep1954: Are you serious here? You were wrong and you posted bad information. Get over it.

Again, this thread is not about Michigan state law. It about federal law. The OP didn't even mention what state he lives in, so all we can talk about here is federal law.

It is irresponsible to confuse your own state laws with federal law and then pass them off as such.
 
When I was a youngster about 55 years ago in the back of comic books you could send a dollars worth of stamps and get X-ray vision glasses or a minister certificate that would allow you to marry couples or a lawyers certificate that would allow you to practice law. My guess Mr. Hazard is you got the X-ray glasses. By the way we aren't talking about Federal law you are.
 
rep1954 said:
By the way we aren't talking about Federal law you are.
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No, this whole thread is about federal law and ATF regulations. You came in and posted this:
rep1954 said:
You can constuct a registered pistol into a rifle configuration but it is still a pistol.
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That is wrong, the ATF would consider it a rifle.

When you posted that comment, the discussion was about ATF regulations. You presented that comment with no mention of it applying to Michigan only. My guess is you didn't realize it was Michigan law when you posted it. Well, now that you know it's only Michigan law, you should also know that it's entirely irrelevant to this conversation.
 
Well we will just let you go fishing by yourself. By the way don't eat the blow fish. Wait second thought, oh never mind.
 
OK... I have a relevant question... maybe not to the OPs question, and Im sorry about that, but since were on this subject, and there are several here who know the correct answer...

I just purchased a complete AR lower. I wasn't paying attention when the paperwork was being processed. I assume from what you guys are saying that it was listed as OTHER. I can go back and find out from the dealer. IF this lower is listed as OTHER, then I can assemble it as a pistol...?
 
You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol, but if you assemble it as a pistol first then it can always go back and forth between being a rifle and a pistol.

Your dealer should have marked "other" on the 4473, if he marked "handgun" or "long gun" he was wrong.
 
Theohazard said:
You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol
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...and who is going to know what upper was installed on it first? Did I miss something somewhere?
 
I live in the state of Michigan and have purchased 4 stripped AR15 lowers and each time they were registered as pistols. If I sell one of the lowers in the state of Michigan no matter what configuration it is in at the time I am selling a registered pistol lower. No matter how I configure the lower legal or illegal the lower is still a pistol lower. If I build with a barrel less than 16" and put stock on the buffer tube it is not a SBR it is a illegally configured pistol.
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While the lower is still registered as a pistol, while the gun is in rifle configuration, EVEN THE STATE OF MISCHIGAN considers it a rifle for legal purpose as you can not carry said pistol lower concealed while it has a 16" barrel and a stock;)
 
...and who is going to know what upper was installed on it first? Did I miss something somewhere?
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No, you didnt miss anything, and therein lies the rub. How can they ever prove anything? How can you really ever prove anything?

If they were really worried about it, I would think they would want you to register it as you intend to use it, and then it is what it is.

But you know how they like it.....confusing as hell and interpreted as they want, when they see fit, or until they change it again, with a dash more confusion and vagueness.

I think the immortal words of Alan Greenspan sum things up nicely.... "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" :D
 
weblance said:
Theohazard said:
You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol
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...and who is going to know what upper was installed on it first?
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Probably nobody, not unless you tell them. It's a pretty hard thing to enforce, that's for sure.

On a side note, it's not about the upper or the barrel length; the length of the barrel doesn't make it into a pistol; its all about whether there's a stock on it or not. If it's assembled with a stock, then it's either a regular rifle or a short barrel rifle, depending on the barre length. But if you first assemble it without a stock, then it's a pistol regardless of barrel length (as long as there's no vertical foregrip installed).
 
Stock or not, its not a rifle or a pistol without the upper.

A stocked lower isnt a rifle, nor is a lower with a pistol tube on it a pistol either.
 
AK103K said:
Stock or not, its not a rifle or a pistol without the upper.

A stocked lower isnt a rifle, nor is a lower with a pistol tube on it a pistol either.
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Correct. Sorry, I was apparently unclear in my previous post; I meant it doesn't matter what kind of upper you install on it when you're making a pistol. But yes, you do need some kind of upper and barrel, otherwise it's just a receiver.
 
This is such a simple issue if one will bother to read the regs, i completed a 4473 on a bare lower, it was listed under the "other" classification. I then stamped the interior with "Pistol" which is not required by any regulatory agency. The upper was stamped with the last four of the S/N on the tang, if a question ever arose as to the origin of the weapon i can point to the stampings and attest to the fact that the receiver was first ( and maybe only) used as a pistol.
I sure am glad ATF has so many rules and opinions to keep us good guys good.
 
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