building a ar pistol
- Thread starter iceman320
- Start date
I'm not sure that any of the 50 states has a maximum length law on any handguns or a minimum length either but maybe just maybe crazy Nancy has changed that in places. I do know that if you want to assemble a pistol lower as a rifle you must place a rifle upper on your lower before placing the stock on the lower half. I know that this sounds stupid but sometimes the wrong people get in office.
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Its a pistol when the lower is logged as a pistol on the 4473. You can put any barrel length you want on it, its still, and always will be a pistol. You can assemble it as a rifle, IF it was originally a pistol, but then it must meet rifle requirements, 16" or longer barrel, overall length of 26" or greater. You can also go back to pistol configuration at will, but only if it started as a pistol.
If it started as a rifle, then you must register it as a SBR and pay the Tax
I know you didnt ask for all that, but I felt like saying it
If it started as a rifle, then you must register it as a SBR and pay the Tax
I know you didnt ask for all that, but I felt like saying it
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dogtown tom
New member
No ATF regulation limits the length of a pistol bbl.
100% absolutely and totally wrong.
An AR lower is recorded on the 4473 as "Other firearm", meaning it is neither handgun or long gun. Read the instructions on the 4473.
Yup. I went through this last year at this time when I picked up a couple of lowers for pistol builds.
Told the dealer I wanted to have them registered as "handguns", so I had a paper trail. He did so, and sent the state police thier copy of the handgun sale.
Next time I was in, they said that the state police kicked it back saying they werent "handguns" and were "other firearms".
I suppose that 4473 still says "handgun" on it, as I didnt fill out another.
While I understand the "other" category, I dont see how you, or anyone else, can prove what you did beyond that point. So basically, whats the point and whats it do?
You'd think they would want the one or the other, handgun/rifle category over the "other", as it gives them more control. It also seems it would be better for the builder from a purely legal standpoint, having it registered as a handgun, as it really doesnt matter what happens beyond that, and other than maybe configuration of the moment, it can be either/or.
Its all foolishness anyway, but I suppose THATS really the whole point.
dogtown tom
New member
Again, 100% absolutely and totally wrong.
ATF regs are clear........firearm frames and receivers are NOT handguns or long guns. THEY ARE OTHER FIREARMS.
Please read the instructions to Question 18 on the 4473.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
deleted for headspace and timing issues.
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If the receiver isnt configured as a handgun or long gun, then its a "other". How could it be anything but?
PA State Police (we are required to file paperwork on handguns) would not register the stripped lower as a handgun, because it was not. I tried.
I dont see how a 10/22 "receiver", or any other reciever for that matter, would be any different.
The NFA is a whole different critter, and really has nothing to do with this.
PA State Police (we are required to file paperwork on handguns) would not register the stripped lower as a handgun, because it was not. I tried.
I dont see how a 10/22 "receiver", or any other reciever for that matter, would be any different.
The NFA is a whole different critter, and really has nothing to do with this.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
Whelp, my information is dated. They changed in July 2009. So it is Other and recorded as a receiver.
dogtown tom
New member
Change your user name to Old Bill Wrongagain
You really should stop posting because you have absolutely no clue about what you are posting.
A Form 4473 doesn't "register" jack squat. To "register" an NFA firearm you file a Form 1 if you are a maker, a Form 2 if a manufacturer. ( a Form 4 is to transfer an NFA firearm)
Since you refuse to read the instructions on the Form 4473, try reading this Open Letter to FFL's from ATF: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-july2009-open-letter-selling-or-delivering-firearms-frames-or/download
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2011-4-pistols-configured-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download
Good grief............it's not wrong and obviously you didn't read the instructions on the 4473.
Wrong again.
You really should stop posting because you have absolutely no clue about what you are posting.
A Form 4473 doesn't "register" jack squat. To "register" an NFA firearm you file a Form 1 if you are a maker, a Form 2 if a manufacturer. ( a Form 4 is to transfer an NFA firearm)
100% wrong. Flat wrong. So wrong it defies common sense. So wrong that you shouldn't post about anything to do with firearms law ever again.
Since you refuse to read the instructions on the Form 4473, try reading this Open Letter to FFL's from ATF: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-july2009-open-letter-selling-or-delivering-firearms-frames-or/download
Guess what? Once again.......WRONG.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2011-4-pistols-configured-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download
You and Weblance need to take turns reading to each other.
dogtown tom
New member
Sorry, but this ATF regulation is crystal clear....if people bother to read it.
Sadly, it's a not uncommon question on several dealer only forums.
(many dealers don't bother to read the instructions either.
)dogtown tom
New member
Does anyone actually read any of these ATF regs?
Pistol>Rifle>Pistol is fine.........but while configured as a rifle it most definitely IS A RIFLE.
Not according to Federal law & ATF regulations.
Pistol>Rifle>Pistol is fine.........but while configured as a rifle it most definitely IS A RIFLE.
Please name one state where the sale of a pistol is impossible.
FrankenMauser
New member
Unless you live in Utah, or a similar state with an overall length or barrel length limit for handguns, you can do whatever you want: 7.5", 14", 36" ... doesn't matter.
(Last time I checked, anything over 12" is in a 'dead zone' in Utah. The stupid definitions used by the state disqualify it as a handgun, a shotgun, a rifle, and the catch all 'other firearms'. So, it can't even fit into the general 'firearm' definition, and becomes a bastard in an undefined dead zone. Technically, it can't exists, even though the definitions create a logical paradox.)
If you ever intend to HUNT with the AR pistol, the restrictions may be more severe, however. Hunting regulations are almost always more restrictive and more precise.
(Last time I checked, anything over 12" is in a 'dead zone' in Utah. The stupid definitions used by the state disqualify it as a handgun, a shotgun, a rifle, and the catch all 'other firearms'. So, it can't even fit into the general 'firearm' definition, and becomes a bastard in an undefined dead zone. Technically, it can't exists, even though the definitions create a logical paradox.)
If you ever intend to HUNT with the AR pistol, the restrictions may be more severe, however. Hunting regulations are almost always more restrictive and more precise.
Theohazard
New member
No. A new lower is always logged on the 4473 as an "other".weblance said:
Nope. Any dealer who lists a new 10/22 receiver as a pistol is an idiot. It's an "other", period.weblance said:
Dogtown Tom might not always give the most tactful responses, but he's 100% right here.weblance said:
You obviously haven't bothered to read the relevant ATF regs on this subject, they're extremely clear.Skans said:
Nope. Federal law would consider it a rifle at that point.rep1954 said:
I live in the state of Michigan and have purchased 4 stripped AR15 lowers and each time they were registered as pistols. If I sell one of the lowers in the state of Michigan no matter what configuration it is in at the time I am selling a registered pistol lower. No matter how I configure the lower legal or illegal the lower is still a pistol lower. If I build with a barrel less than 16" and put stock on the buffer tube it is not a SBR it is a illegally configured pistol.