Building a 1911? What parts?

[HiBC]

44 AMP,I mostly agree with what you said.It would boil down to a long discussion of tolerancing.
Generally speaking,the more designed in clearance,the more forgiving a design is in assembly.
In large part,this realization evolved from wartime production of aircraft.
The Craftsman might believe a .257 clearance hole for a 1/4 in bolt is higher "quality" than a .281 clearance hole. In fact,both may be "in tolerance"
But the parts with multiple .281 holes will have fewer assembly problems in the field.Aircraft bonus,they are a bit lighter.

Statistics also enter into tolerancing. Its a bit rare for worst case features to stack. Often grabbing another in tolerance part is the cure.

I read someplace that,at least on early war production 1911's,the somewhat malleable locking lugs were "fitted in" by firing the proof loads.

We know the 1911 is a robust enough design to function "good enough" (for a while) when the link rather than the slide stop and barrel lug fit is holding full battery. Many 1911 "mechanics" think they are fixing something with a link change when they don't really know why.Many running,shooting 1911's are not running the way JMB planned.

I think we agree there are more than one kind of 1911.

IMO,generally,a $400 Philippine RIA or ATI mil-spec will offer a more functionally correct 1911 than the best efforts of the well intentioned first (or second) time builder spending a lot of money at Brownells on Wilson,Baer,Brown,STI,and Nowlin, BarSto,Caspian etc parts.

Essentially,the RIA or Springfield MilSpec is a bag of Mil-Spec parts that have been assembled. Its just another way to buy the parts.Pretty much guaranteed to go together and work.Where do you buy those parts cheaper?

I think that's not usually the dream 1911 most amateur builders jump in for.

Or at least,they may be surprised if they buy $700 worth of "drop in "parts.
Folks don't buy a $250 frame,a $250 slide,and a $230 barrel and $20 worth of grip screws to build a Mil-Spec gun.Now add in Kunhausen books,those $60 "special files" a sear jig,a barrel centering block,a lug cutter,etc...and all the little parts? Sights,safeties,hammer,trigger,sear,disconnect? Pretty soon a $1200 1911 is not so high.

Few people build an engine to duplicate a production line replacement crate motor. Even bone stock there will be efforts to "blueprint"...or why do it?

It seldom save money.

 

[Kilibreaux]

The SIMPLE answer is to just buy any generic brand of 1911 and install whatever parts YOU think are needed.

 

[straightshooterjake]

44AMP, thanks for the informative post. That gives me a much better understanding of the fitting and maintenance of military 1911s.

However, I still stand by my general point. Most people who want to build a 1911 want to build a gun that is "better" than mil-spec. And the aftermarket parts sold for this purpose require knowledge and skill to fit them so the gun actually works. Ask me how I know.

 

[dahermit]

The SIMPLE answer is to just buy any generic brand of 1911 and install whatever parts YOU think are needed.

He said he has already selected a Caspian frame. If that means he has already bought it, he is already committed to doing a build.

 

[Siggy-06]

Thanks again for the input everyone, and the different sources for build information. I have already purchased parts and pins. If filing is required, I have all the necessary tools for that.

This isn't meant to be a $3000 bullseye gun by any means. Its just a fun project that I'll do my best on and hopefully keep the cost below $1000. I'm sure they'll be bugs to work out and if I can't do it, then my one of my gunsmiths will.

 

[burrhead]

The cost will not be less than $1,000. May as well get that straight right now. Cheaper to buy than build. Example: a proper trigger job done by a GS is $100-$150 for labor or do it yourself with $200-$300 worth of jigs and stones. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/trigger-job-tools/index.htm And it just goes on and on from there. For a decent build, nothing fancy, you can figure $1,500 +/-.

 

[44 AMP]

Generally speaking,the more designed in clearance,the more forgiving a design is in assembly.
In large part,this realization evolved from wartime production of aircraft.

I would agree if you said widespread realization of this came from wartime aircraft production.

The 1911 was designed, the way it was, years BEFORE there were ANY wartime production aircraft, and decades before metal bodied aircraft were made.

I would also point out that the GI .45 was not "flawless and never jammed". It did. I have read many battlefield accounts where .45s jammed. The .45 got its reputation for "never jamming" (which, like everything else, increases the more often the tale is told) not because it never jammed, but because, under harsh conditions, it jammed significantly less often than every other contemporary service pistol.

As a defensive pistol, I think the only thing a GI .45 needs is better sights (more easily seen). A better trigger pull doesn't hurt, but its not needed for combat use, and a match grade trigger can actually be detrimental.

If you want to build an "improved" .45, to shoot small groups and win matches, then you will be fitting parts to get the best performance, but it will usually come at the expense of (slightly) decreased reliability under the most adverse conditions. Not that big a deal if you aren't crawling through the mud of Flanders fields, or the jungles of Guadalcanal, but a big deal if you are.

I have my father's Colt Government Model, which was fitted with target sights and a sweet trigger job in the late 60s. That gun will put 5 shots in one ragged 2-2.5" hole at 25yds. I had a 1943 Remington Rand 1911A1. It would put 5 shots in 8" or less (but usually not much less) at the same distance. Minute of man accurate, if you aimed COM. (yes it was a bit worn) Not target accurate, but accurate enough to hit the enemy, if you did your part right.

And that's what the buyer (US govt) demanded.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

For a decent build, nothing fancy, you can figure $1,500 +/-.

My first 1911 build ("assembly") was on a Caspian frame, and the whole thing cost me somewhere around $400 to $450. It's not the equal of a Guncrafters 50 GI or even an Ed Brown, but it's completely reliable and more accurate than I can shoot it. At the time I could have bought a new Rock Island GI for about $375 so the build did cost more than buying a complete pistol -- but the value in the added cost was in the learning experience. I can't put a price on that.

 

[reddog81]

I found a good deal on a match grade threaded barrel summer of 2016 - $100. I found a good deal on a PSA blemished frame a couple of months later $125ish. After getting these 2 components I decided to go all in and finish it.

Over the next couple of months I found a Remington slide. It happened to be an early from when they restarted production a couple of years ago and had proprietary dovetails for the sights. That cost $150 plus $75 to have standard dovetails cut. I bought a "parts kit" from Ebay for around $150. I ended up buying a different hammer and sear combo for around $100. The sights I had laying around but would have been $75 to $100 for those. $50 for grips. $50 for the tool to install the plunger tube. I ended up replacing a number of the parts from the parts kit I bought - probably another $100.

I'm probably leaving out a number of items.... The gun functions great, but all the parts have a different finish. The lock up is pretty good. I got lucky and the slide to frame fit was great. I had to fit the barrel bushing and tried a couple of different barrel links. IMO Jerry Kuhnhausen's book is a necessity. I've shot a couple hundred rounds through it and the accuracy is OK but probably worse than average. It was a fun learning experience, but I could have saved $100's and got a better 1911 buying something off the shelf. I already have half a dozen 1911's ranging from a WW1 Colt to Kimber TLE to a Colt Delta Elite so I viewed it as a fun project more than anything else.