Buffalobore .38 special Outdoorsman in LCR
- Thread starter HighValleyRanch
- Start date
Bill DeShivs
New member
If Buffalo Bore has access to "special powders not available to reloaders," wouldn't Winchester, Remington, Aguila, PMC, and all the other manufacturers have access to these "special" powders?
And, if they do-why aren't THEY producing these "super loads" that BB produces?
It doesn't add up.
And, if they do-why aren't THEY producing these "super loads" that BB produces?
It doesn't add up.
HighValleyRanch
New member
Bill, under that same logic, all loads of the various manufacturers would be the same, but even within the lower power end all the manufacturers vary in their load outputs.
Not all people want the hottest loads. I mean there are tons of shooters who could not handle these loads just because of the recoil in light weight guns.
The reason I like these loads is that they get into the four legged protection area for a .38 +P. And for SD I carry the lighter Hornady Critical defense loads.
So other manufacturers are happy to let the boutique manufacturers get away with having the hottest loads. Just like every car doesn't have to be like a corvette!
By the way, I just got my 3 inch LCRX and am looking forward to testing the BB Outdoorsman in the longer barrel with my Chrony as soon as the weather clears a bit. Since Ruger doesn't make this in the .357 magnum yet, the BB load is the perfect answer to this being a more ideal woods/ kit gun.
Not all people want the hottest loads. I mean there are tons of shooters who could not handle these loads just because of the recoil in light weight guns.
The reason I like these loads is that they get into the four legged protection area for a .38 +P. And for SD I carry the lighter Hornady Critical defense loads.
So other manufacturers are happy to let the boutique manufacturers get away with having the hottest loads. Just like every car doesn't have to be like a corvette!
By the way, I just got my 3 inch LCRX and am looking forward to testing the BB Outdoorsman in the longer barrel with my Chrony as soon as the weather clears a bit. Since Ruger doesn't make this in the .357 magnum yet, the BB load is the perfect answer to this being a more ideal woods/ kit gun.
Model12Win
Moderator
Buffler Burr is some good shells.
It does in fact "add up". Buffalo Bore produces much less ammo than the big manufacturers. The can take the time to fine tune their loads for maximum performance and their prices reflect this extra attention to detail.
Rem/Win/Fed want to produce the maximum number of rounds, as cheaply as possible and be "lawyer safe". So they load to reasonable performance, which is generally hot enough for 90% of the shooting public, which is also back from the edge of maximum possible performance.
Think of it like the difference between a factory performance car and a custom built high performance vehicle. The custom job will out perform the factory version...and you pay for that privilege.
Dave
You don't actually think Buffalo Bore spends more on R&D than the multi-billion dollar companies that own Blazer, American Eagle, Federal, and Winchester? These are also the companies that manufacture most of the powder sold in the US. These are also the companies that produce most of the primers sold. These companies could easily produce the same ammo that Buffalo Bore produces if they decided to disrregard SAAMI standards. The reason that guns can withstand these higher pressure is because there is a large safety margin designed into the guns not because the pressure is within SAAMI standards. Belief otherwise is just illogical.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I DO know that newer powders come along and do amazing things with less than "normal" pressure.
Look at the sensation that Hodgdon's Lil Gun powder made in the .22 Hornet and K Hornet.....
In general, it was achieving approx. 200 or more fps per bullet, with lower pressure readings than any powder available at that time...
So, I "never say never"....
Personally, I don't plan on buying the BB stuff, because I have no need for that kind of performance in my Mod 64. I can get by with normal +P kind of stuff for "serious" situations, and considerably less for plinking stuff.
Look at the sensation that Hodgdon's Lil Gun powder made in the .22 Hornet and K Hornet.....
In general, it was achieving approx. 200 or more fps per bullet, with lower pressure readings than any powder available at that time...
So, I "never say never"....
Personally, I don't plan on buying the BB stuff, because I have no need for that kind of performance in my Mod 64. I can get by with normal +P kind of stuff for "serious" situations, and considerably less for plinking stuff.
Reddog81 I mean this respectfully, but you don't know what you're talking about. Buffalo Bore does not overload their ammo. If you spend enough time in older reloading manuals (and I assume that you don't) you can find loadings that are very close to matching every one of their offerings. But guess what? Like 90% of the loads set forth in common and less common reloading manuals are not available commercially. Go look for yourself. The R&D is there. Much of those publishings are by the companies you just named. But do they also offer all those loads? Of course not. They offer general non-specialized loads that appeals to the broadest range of purchasers and left the specialized loads for the reloaders.
Then along comes buffalo Bore and Underwood and cherry picked some of the hottest loads for self defense and outdoors uses, just like experienced reloaders do, but now those without a reloading bench and ten years of experience sitting at one can also utilize the power of those specialized loads. All within SAAMI specs. So please share INFORMED opinions, or read and learn. And please don't use false assumptions to disparage a wonderful American company. Thanks.
Then along comes buffalo Bore and Underwood and cherry picked some of the hottest loads for self defense and outdoors uses, just like experienced reloaders do, but now those without a reloading bench and ten years of experience sitting at one can also utilize the power of those specialized loads. All within SAAMI specs. So please share INFORMED opinions, or read and learn. And please don't use false assumptions to disparage a wonderful American company. Thanks.
PatientWolf
New member
R&D can have many purposes.
A niche manufacturer such as Buffalo Bore may spend their R&D $'s maximizing performance and ensuring that they don't exceed safe operation though spending those $'s on a more intensive QC process.
Mainstream manufacturers more likely spend their R&D $'s trying to maximize profits without going below some threshold they have set to ensure they don't turn away buyers and also with confidence they won't exceed safe operation even with a possibly wider statistical range.
My $0.02 (which is nowhere near R&D $'s).
A niche manufacturer such as Buffalo Bore may spend their R&D $'s maximizing performance and ensuring that they don't exceed safe operation though spending those $'s on a more intensive QC process.
Mainstream manufacturers more likely spend their R&D $'s trying to maximize profits without going below some threshold they have set to ensure they don't turn away buyers and also with confidence they won't exceed safe operation even with a possibly wider statistical range.
My $0.02 (which is nowhere near R&D $'s).
Here are the hottest loads of any load for a 158 grain bullet from the most popular powder manufacturers online reloading guides.
Hodgdon CFE 986 FPS 18,500 PSI
Western AA#5 983 FPS 19,931 PSI
Alliant Powder Pistol 1,037 FPS no pressure given
Lyman #48 Unique 954 FPS 18,000 CUP
These powder manufacturers have been releasing many new powders over the last couple of years. If there was some boutique powder out there that could get 38 special +P up to 1,250 FPS wouldn't they have decided to release that one?
Hodgdon's reloading guide has a number of loads for 158 LSWC going 1,100 to 1,300 FPS, but you'll need to look in the 357 Magnum load data and the pressures range from 24,400 to 28,500 PSI.
Even if the SAAMI member ammo manufacturers didn't want to load hot 38+P loads (which doesn't make a whole lot of sense), surely the powder manufacturers data would have loads that could get close to BB numbers.
I think Buffalo Bore would gain credibility by just telling people what peak pressures the ammo operates at.
Hodgdon CFE 986 FPS 18,500 PSI
Western AA#5 983 FPS 19,931 PSI
Alliant Powder Pistol 1,037 FPS no pressure given
Lyman #48 Unique 954 FPS 18,000 CUP
These powder manufacturers have been releasing many new powders over the last couple of years. If there was some boutique powder out there that could get 38 special +P up to 1,250 FPS wouldn't they have decided to release that one?
Hodgdon's reloading guide has a number of loads for 158 LSWC going 1,100 to 1,300 FPS, but you'll need to look in the 357 Magnum load data and the pressures range from 24,400 to 28,500 PSI.
Even if the SAAMI member ammo manufacturers didn't want to load hot 38+P loads (which doesn't make a whole lot of sense), surely the powder manufacturers data would have loads that could get close to BB numbers.
I think Buffalo Bore would gain credibility by just telling people what peak pressures the ammo operates at.
Cheapshooter
New member
What Buffalo Bore does is two fold.
1. Not necessarily pertinent to the 38 Spcl discussion is they use advertising hype to appeal to people thinking they can make a magnum out of any standard round. Adding the "+P" to ammunition for which there is no SAAMI +P standard.
2. They most likely do load to SAAMI pressures, but push the envelope to the very edge. While major manufacturers keep a tolerance somewhere under absolute maximum.
The first treading very close to false advertising, and the second knocking on the door of dangerous if someone believing they can turn their older, weaker, or possibly poorly made gun into a dragon slayer with this great custom made ammo.
Fortunatly, and possibly counted on by BB, the cost probably keeps many of the victims of the hype from shooting enough of the hot ammo to cause serious problems.
1. Not necessarily pertinent to the 38 Spcl discussion is they use advertising hype to appeal to people thinking they can make a magnum out of any standard round. Adding the "+P" to ammunition for which there is no SAAMI +P standard.
2. They most likely do load to SAAMI pressures, but push the envelope to the very edge. While major manufacturers keep a tolerance somewhere under absolute maximum.
The first treading very close to false advertising, and the second knocking on the door of dangerous if someone believing they can turn their older, weaker, or possibly poorly made gun into a dragon slayer with this great custom made ammo.
Fortunatly, and possibly counted on by BB, the cost probably keeps many of the victims of the hype from shooting enough of the hot ammo to cause serious problems.