Buffalo Bore 9mm rounds

Speed and a tough/hard bullet are what you want for busting through dangerous animals skulls.
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Absolutely correct, BUT not quite enough of an explanation. There is a range of speed that works best, for a given caliber and type of target. Impact angle and type of target matter as well.

SIZE of the projectile its shape, AND speed, in combination are what matter, and the "best" combination is different for different targets.

Once you have the minimum speed & energy needed, going faster might not be a benefit. For a couple of examples, I have had .45Colt 250gr SWC at 1100fps glance off an angled metal surface that a 9mm at 1100fps punched through. The same metal, at a different angle, the .45 punched through like it wasn't there.

Size, type of the slug, and ANGLE mattered here. Velocities were approximately the same.

African Elephant hunters have found that for their big .45 (or larger) caliber rifles vs. elephant skulls that a velocity range of 19-2300fps works best, punching through, where higher speeds (2500fps) had a marked tendency to glance off with a hit in the same spot.

HUNTING bear can be successfully done with lesser rounds, (such as .45acp) STOPPING a bear is a different matter.
 
44 AMP said:
Absolutely correct, BUT not quite enough of an explanation. There is a range of speed that works best, for a given caliber and type of target. Impact angle and type of target matter as well.



SIZE of the projectile its shape, AND speed, in combination are what matter, and the "best" combination is different for different targets.



Once you have the minimum speed & energy needed, going faster might not be a benefit. For a couple of examples, I have had .45Colt 250gr SWC at 1100fps glance off an angled metal surface that a 9mm at 1100fps punched through. The same metal, at a different angle, the .45 punched through like it wasn't there.



Size, type of the slug, and ANGLE mattered here. Velocities were approximately the same.



African Elephant hunters have found that for their big .45 (or larger) caliber rifles vs. elephant skulls that a velocity range of 19-2300fps works best, punching through, where higher speeds (2500fps) had a marked tendency to glance off with a hit in the same spot.



HUNTING bear can be successfully done with lesser rounds, (such as .45acp) STOPPING a bear is a different matter.
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Interested in the +p outdoorsman 147 hc fn rounds more then the +p+ penetrators fmj fn.
1100 fps, heavy, flat nose hard cast.
The +p+ rounds are 124 grain but shoot 1300 fps
 
I carry a 38 special 3 inch revolver for my woods carry in non-grizzly country. I load it with BBs 158 gn outdoorsman +p hard cast Keith load. The velocity is actually equal to mid-range 357 mag. VERY hot. They're wrist wrenchers but I feel completely safe with them on hand. I would not hesitate to rely on BBs 9mm +p outdoorsman rounds either. Underwood is great too (truly, I buy frequently from Underwood and love them) but they don't have those specially formulated outdoorsman loadings.
 
drive_sideways said:
I'll order a some buffalo bore rounds next week.
Do u know if they ship right to your house?
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It depends on your state and local laws. In some places, it's illegal to get ammo shipped to your house. Your profile doesn't say which state you live in, so the people in this thread who are telling you it's legal could possibly be encouraging you to break the law.
 
Theohazard said:
It depends on your state and local laws. In some places, it's illegal to get ammo shipped to your house. Your profile doesn't say which state you live in, so the people in this thread who are telling you it's legal could possibly be encouraging you to break the law.
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I live in VT, no gun laws at all lol. U can carry anywhere, open or concealed, without a permit. Only place u cant carry is a school or a federal building obviously. As far as i know ammo can be shipped to my door, i am going to double check though.
 
Yeah, I'd be very, very surprised if it wasn't legal to have ammo shipped to your house in VT. It's always a good idea to check, though. After all, silencers were illegal in VT for almost a century and were only legalized recently (and they're still only legal to use at shooting ranges). So I suppose it's possible that VT could have other random anti-gun laws even though the rest of its laws are so good.
 
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I live in VT, no gun laws at all lol. U can carry anywhere, open or concealed, without a permit. Only place u cant carry is a school or a federal building obviously. As far as i know ammo can be shipped to my door, i am going to double check though.
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Yes, ammo can be shipped right to your door in Vermont.

BTW, there is one other restriction on carry in Vermont. You have to be at least sixteen years old. That's apparently the level of gun control you need to become the safest state in the Union.
 
The Buffalo Bore ammo I've tested has lived up to expectations velocity wise.

With that said, so has Underwood. Underwood is a bit less expensive and shipping is quite a bit less.

If I was going to carry the 9mm for Black Bear protection I'd give the Underwood 115gr Extreme Penetrator careful consideration. Don't have any personal experience with this load. Don't know how much of this is hype but the reviews are worth reading.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-115-grain-xtreme-penetrator-1/

FWIW,

Paul
 
Cosmodragoon said:
Yes, ammo can be shipped right to your door in Vermont.



BTW, there is one other restriction on carry in Vermont. You have to be at least sixteen years old. That's apparently the level of gun control you need to become the safest state in the Union.
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I thought it was 18?
16 is to young imo
I didnt carry til i was 21, so last year :p
 
I thought it was 18?
16 is to young imo
I didnt carry til i was 21, so last year
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Nope. The carry age in Vermont is sixteen. Of course, you won't be able to buy the gun from a federally licensed dealer at that age but you can own and carry it. :)
 
Cosmodragoon said:
Nope. The carry age in Vermont is sixteen. Of course, you won't be able to buy the gun from a federally licensed dealer at that age but you can own and carry it. :)
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Thank goodness.
21 is the buying age i know for a fact.
Ive lived in VT my whole life an had no idea 16 year olds could carry...
In my opinion they shouldnt be allowed to unless there hunting with one but thats just me lol
 
Thank goodness.
21 is the buying age i know for a fact.
Ive lived in VT my whole life an had no idea 16 year olds could carry...
In my opinion they shouldnt be allowed to unless there hunting with one but thats just me lol
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It shocked me too when I found out. Yet somehow, despite that and the widespread poverty and a rampant heroin epidemic in the cities, it's still the safest state in the Union. I guess the old adage about not knowing which potential victims are armed holds true for all ages!

Speaking of safety and steering back to the original topic, the woods are relatively safe too. The most likely threat is still probably other people. After that, coyotes might be more dangerous than bears. Surprisingly, moose have been known to attack people in the Green Mountains. They are big animals but built differently than bear. Does anyone have a minimum handgun recommendation for moose?
 
Cosmodragoon said:
It shocked me too when I found out. Yet somehow, despite that and the widespread poverty and a rampant heroin epidemic in the cities, it's still the safest state in the Union. I guess the old adage about not knowing which potential victims are armed holds true for all ages!



Speaking of safety and steering back to the original topic, the woods are relatively safe too. The most likely threat is still probably other people. After that, coyotes might be more dangerous than bears. Surprisingly, moose have been known to attack people in the Green Mountains. They are big animals but built differently than bear. Does anyone have a minimum handgun recommendation for moose?
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Coyotes are worse then bears here, in the past couple of years people have been attacked, especially in the area i hunt, no fatalities other then household pets or farm animals. I shoot them when i get the chance. There big up here, sometimes 70 or 80 lbs, mainly because they're mixed with wolves according to recent studies. They are roughly double the size of western coyotes. We also got wolves on the come back, a bunch have been shot by coyote hunters. We got a lot of both bears an coyotes (coy dogs is what we call them since they're not real pure bread coyotes). Up here i have a few friends who like the ruger redhawk or blackhawk 357 or 44 mag for hunting or hiking in moose country. One of my friends just got a gp100 357. Thing is a beast, so solid, comfortable hogue grip, and a pretty decent trigger imo. For hunting the actual handgun regulation for moose is it has to be at least a centerfire .25 caliber or bigger, rifles are applied the same rule. I wouldnt recommend anything smaller then a 357 mag though.
 
NATO 124g Hardball is fast enough, and will penetrate.

Weather you would want to take on a Bear (any Bear) with a 9mm Pistol is a dicey game. My choice would be 12 gage slugs!

The last time I was in deep woods, Ontario Canada, was in 1970, with a .303.

This Jungle Carbine was loaded with 10 rounds of soft points. I felt safe with this combination.
 
I carry a 9mm with non+P ammo. If I feel I need more power than that, I'll carry a 45 rather than try to make the 9 "bigger".
 
I got too close for comfort with a coyote once when all I had was a little .380 Bodyguard. Luckily, it decided to turn tail and run. In hindsight, I probably should have shot it anyway for reasons already mentioned. I was in a state of total surprise when it happened. Speaking of hindsight, that experience also convinced me to sell the Bodyguard. (It concealed well but had more problems than just caliber confidence.)

I made .38 special and 9mm my "bottom rungs" for regular concealed carry after that. I've recently been transitioning into .327 Federal Magnum. It packs more punch than either and the six-shot LCR is extremely convenient for EDC. After a trigger job, the 4" SP101 actually gets carried sometimes, including in the woods. Even without going to Double Tap or Buffalo Bore, Federal has a relatively inexpensive 100-grain soft point that should break 1500 fps out of that barrel.

For dedicated woods time, you could do a lot worse than a GP100. The right bullets in .357 magnum out of barrels four inches or longer can accomplish a lot.

This thread actually inspired me to spend some time researching moose hunting and moose attacks. I don't know the caliber but you can see someone end an attack with what looks like less than 10mm in this popular video. (People here should be fine but sensitive readers might want to skip watching it.)
 
Brit said:
NATO 124g Hardball is fast enough, and will penetrate.



Weather you would want to take on a Bear (any Bear) with a 9mm Pistol is a dicey game. My choice would be 12 gage slugs!



The last time I was in deep woods, Ontario Canada, was in 1970, with a .303.



This Jungle Carbine was loaded with 10 rounds of soft points. I felt safe with this combination.
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A 12 with 2 slugs an 3 00 buck is preferred for a simple day hike but when ur pack is already 60 or 70 lbs and im hiking 14 miles over 3 mountains on a over nighter, a shotgun isnt exactly what i want to carry lol. My 9mm fits the lightweight bill perfectly. High mag capacity, deep penetration with proper rounds, low recoil, an i can empty a mag accurately rapidly... When i get a 10mm or a revolver i'll be switching to that lol, but my 9 is my current go to.
 
Cosmodragoon said:
I got too close for comfort with a coyote once when all I had was a little .380 Bodyguard. Luckily, it decided to turn tail and run. In hindsight, I probably should have shot it anyway for reasons already mentioned. I was in a state of total surprise when it happened. Speaking of hindsight, that experience also convinced me to sell the Bodyguard. (It concealed well but had more problems than just caliber confidence.)



I made .38 special and 9mm my "bottom rungs" for regular concealed carry after that. I've recently been transitioning into .327 Federal Magnum. It packs more punch than either and the six-shot LCR is extremely convenient for EDC. After a trigger job, the 4" SP101 actually gets carried sometimes, including in the woods. Even without going to Double Tap or Buffalo Bore, Federal has a relatively inexpensive 100-grain soft point that should break 1500 fps out of that barrel.



For dedicated woods time, you could do a lot worse than a GP100. The right bullets in .357 magnum out of barrels four inches or longer can accomplish a lot.



This thread actually inspired me to spend some time researching moose hunting and moose attacks. I don't know the caliber but you can see someone end an attack with what looks like less than 10mm in this popular video. (People here should be fine but sensitive readers might want to skip watching it.)
Click to expand...



Man that guy was lucky lol.
Moose are no joke, can be over 1000 lbs...
My friend had one come at him an alls he had was his 7mm08. He was finally able to chase it off
 
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