Budget long range scope && Bi-pod
- Thread starter HDmac
- Start date
madcratebuilder
New member
Bi-pod-Midway is running a sale on the Cadwell bi-pods. these are a copy of the Harris, imported and are fairly nice, most of all they are cheap. Best budget bi-pod you can get.
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=cadwell+bipod
I have owned or used about every scope in the $200-$600 price range at one time or another. I have a very short list of scopes that have consistent adjustments and what I consider quality optic.
Vortex Vipers run in the $350 to $450 area. 6.5-22X50PA is GTG.
Mueller TAC II is $330 +/-, does not have AO, but very nice glass.
I have about two months with a new Alpen Optics Apex scope. Model 4058 is 6-24X50, 30mm tube, side focus, a clone of the Vortex Viper in many ways. I have found the optic quality to be better than the Vipers, especially at full magnification. Great eye relief, the eye box does get small at 22X, but they all do. The price? $320 with a no paper work life time warranty.
Tracking behind a .308 AR10 has been perfect. I would not hesitate to buy another. These are head and shoulders above the $400-600 Nikons and Bushnells.
http://www.alpenoptics.com/RScope-apex.html
Bottom line, about $360 for both bi-pod and scope. You well still need to mount the bi-pod and the scope, that's going to be at least $60-70 bucks for quality parts.
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=cadwell+bipod
I have owned or used about every scope in the $200-$600 price range at one time or another. I have a very short list of scopes that have consistent adjustments and what I consider quality optic.
Vortex Vipers run in the $350 to $450 area. 6.5-22X50PA is GTG.
Mueller TAC II is $330 +/-, does not have AO, but very nice glass.
I have about two months with a new Alpen Optics Apex scope. Model 4058 is 6-24X50, 30mm tube, side focus, a clone of the Vortex Viper in many ways. I have found the optic quality to be better than the Vipers, especially at full magnification. Great eye relief, the eye box does get small at 22X, but they all do. The price? $320 with a no paper work life time warranty.
Tracking behind a .308 AR10 has been perfect. I would not hesitate to buy another. These are head and shoulders above the $400-600 Nikons and Bushnells.
http://www.alpenoptics.com/RScope-apex.html
Bottom line, about $360 for both bi-pod and scope. You well still need to mount the bi-pod and the scope, that's going to be at least $60-70 bucks for quality parts.
It you do a little research,these are highly regarded.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...ective-mil-dot-reticle-matte?cm_vc=S016746570
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...ective-mil-dot-reticle-matte?cm_vc=S016746570
golfnutrlv
New member
Reticle choice is kind of personal preference. Mil Dot's are made for quick elevation and windage correction, and can be used to determine range (assuming you know the size of the target, or something nearby).
I really don't use my mils for F-class long range target. I can, but prefer the finer center crosshair. I do know how many mils to hold off at most of my frequent ranges. 200, 300, 600, and 1000 (plus some click adjustments).
Again, personal choice, but I like Mil-Dots.
I really don't use my mils for F-class long range target. I can, but prefer the finer center crosshair. I do know how many mils to hold off at most of my frequent ranges. 200, 300, 600, and 1000 (plus some click adjustments).
Again, personal choice, but I like Mil-Dots.
TheNatureBoy
New member
If a $200.00 scope is all you can afford buy it until you can do better. Last October I purchased a Remington 700 5R/.308. I could not afford a $1500+ scope for it so I went with a $169 Osprey that I already had. Do I intend to upgrade? Yes I do. When October this year rolls around, and if the bottom doesn't fall out I will. I've had this same scope atop my 7mm Rem Mag Sendero for about 3 years and have put up some incredible groups out to 400 yards with both rifles. Glass is clear, turrets work, holds zero.... I've responded to posts similar to this one and have yet to have anyone send me a private message offering $$$ and I doubt you will. Do the best with what you have until you can do better
I bought that exact scope on special at Midway but with a duplex reticle. Unfortunately it was DOA and the bad part was I messed with it for almost a year before I realized it. I had an H&R Ultra Varmint in .204 Ruger and I couldn't get the rifle to pattern better than 3-4" groups with any weight bullet. I had a trigger job done, I used an O-ring to float the forearm, and tried about every other trick in the book from Greybeard Outdoors to get it to shoot. Finally after about a year of messing with things I slapped a 2-7 Vortex Viper on it and started shooting 1/2" groups at a 100 yards immeadiately. That is the second Simmons scope to bite the dust, and I won't buy another unless it comes on the rifle already.
TheNatureBoy
New member
I'm leaning towards Vortex as well HDmac.
I'm afraid it's not really possible.
Buying good stuff usually saves trouble a money in the long terms. You higher expenses will be ammo, anyway.
I'd go for Harris bipod, it's not that expensive, and you will never be wrong with these.
The scope is another matter, these can really be expensive and there is a reason. But as a thumb rule, avoid anything made in China and try to look for the medium priced stuff usually made in Japan. You do need a quality scope and quality is expensive if you are not really lucky.
But what seems strange to me is to buy a $1200 rifle and put a $200 scope on it. I think that a $700 rifle with a $700 scope might work better...
Buying good stuff usually saves trouble a money in the long terms. You higher expenses will be ammo, anyway.
I'd go for Harris bipod, it's not that expensive, and you will never be wrong with these.
The scope is another matter, these can really be expensive and there is a reason. But as a thumb rule, avoid anything made in China and try to look for the medium priced stuff usually made in Japan. You do need a quality scope and quality is expensive if you are not really lucky.
But what seems strange to me is to buy a $1200 rifle and put a $200 scope on it. I think that a $700 rifle with a $700 scope might work better...
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madcratebuilder
New member
You can spend all the money you want but it's nor going to make you a good marksmen necessarily. A few days ago I did some long range work with a local group of guys and watched a $400 bolt gun with a $400 Viper match a $4000 gas gun with a $2000 Nightforce. Shot for shot at 1080yds per laser range finder.
Ditto for the Viper...
Have two of them and will buy more.
One thing to be SURE to look at, regardless of the manufacturer is the amount of internal elevation adjustment. For this reason, 30mm scopes are best.
Determine what your approximate bullet drop will be based on the load and maximum distance you will be shooting- and be sure the scope has enough adjustment to handle it. Even with a 20 minute base, many scopes won't get you past 600 yards.
Made that mistake once...
Have two of them and will buy more.
One thing to be SURE to look at, regardless of the manufacturer is the amount of internal elevation adjustment. For this reason, 30mm scopes are best.
Determine what your approximate bullet drop will be based on the load and maximum distance you will be shooting- and be sure the scope has enough adjustment to handle it. Even with a 20 minute base, many scopes won't get you past 600 yards.
Made that mistake once...
Blackthunder
New member
let’s get down to reality
The things that make a scope expensive are:
The ability to zoom especially if it needs to zoom from a low magnification to a high one. Such as 6-24.
A large objective and tube diameter.
Generally speaking the greater magnification the larger an objective you would want.
These larger scopes also make your rifle heavier and sit higher on your rifle which can cause problems when you shoot at varying distances (hunting). A heavier scope is also more recoil sensitive and will need stronger mounts.
The reality is that you probably do not need such a powerful scope. Something that magnifies over 12x is nonsense for most target applications. For hunting this might be 6x.
If you want a quality scope that does not cost a lot, the way to go is fixed power. Like for like a variable scope will never be as sturdy as a fixed power scope.
Even if you were going to go for a variable power scope. A 2-7x32 might be all you need to hunt. I personally think that a 6x magnification is high for quick target acquisition, if you shoot off hand or at moving targets.
For target a 3-9x40 might be all that you need.
Most military / police snipers also do not use these huge scopes.
We want all want something that looks cool and that please our ego for as little money possible. But :
The things that make a scope expensive are:
The ability to zoom especially if it needs to zoom from a low magnification to a high one. Such as 6-24.
A large objective and tube diameter.
Generally speaking the greater magnification the larger an objective you would want.
These larger scopes also make your rifle heavier and sit higher on your rifle which can cause problems when you shoot at varying distances (hunting). A heavier scope is also more recoil sensitive and will need stronger mounts.
The reality is that you probably do not need such a powerful scope. Something that magnifies over 12x is nonsense for most target applications. For hunting this might be 6x.
If you want a quality scope that does not cost a lot, the way to go is fixed power. Like for like a variable scope will never be as sturdy as a fixed power scope.
Even if you were going to go for a variable power scope. A 2-7x32 might be all you need to hunt. I personally think that a 6x magnification is high for quick target acquisition, if you shoot off hand or at moving targets.
For target a 3-9x40 might be all that you need.
Most military / police snipers also do not use these huge scopes.
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You want a by-pod that swivels. That is, will allow you to cant the rifle from side to side to level it. Trust me on that.
As for as scopes. I have three Osprey 10-42x50. One was mounted on my 30-06 and held up well for 500 + rounds. I replaced it with a Nightforce because I wanted a GOOD scope on that particular rifle. I think enough of the Osprey that I don't want to sell it. The Osprey are nice scopes for the price, hold and return to zero, nice lighted adjustable radical lights red or green. They aren't as clear as a $2000.00 Night force and the Nightforce has better eye relief and more positive turret clicks but the Osprey really are nice scopes for cheep. As everyone has said though, don't expect to get from a cheep scope what you'll get from and top dollar one. I've tried several brands of cheep scopes and the Osprey is as good and most times better than any of the others in $200.00 to $300.00 range.
After having the chance to compare the Osprey 10-42X50 to my new Nightforce 8-32x56 I can truthfully say the Osprey is a lot of scope for the money. I don't feel like they're lacking all that much when I shoot my rifles that are still equipped with Ospreys. Do I like the Nightforce a lot better? Yep! But I also paid a LOT more for it but I won't be replacing the other Ospreys in the near future either.
They were $150.00 here http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=453841 but they're sold out. Don't know if they will be restocking.
$230.00 here. http://www.opticsplanet.net/osprey-...icle-30mm-tube-ta-riflescope-ta104050imd.html
The Ospreys come equipped with high rings. If you should purchase one you'll probably want to get some medium height rings.
Good luck and have fun.
Jerry
Ps, for your viewing pleasure
06 with Osprey and Boyd's stock.
06 with Nightforce in Bell and Carson stock.
As for as scopes. I have three Osprey 10-42x50. One was mounted on my 30-06 and held up well for 500 + rounds. I replaced it with a Nightforce because I wanted a GOOD scope on that particular rifle. I think enough of the Osprey that I don't want to sell it.
The Osprey are nice scopes for the price, hold and return to zero, nice lighted adjustable radical lights red or green. They aren't as clear as a $2000.00 Night force and the Nightforce has better eye relief and more positive turret clicks but the Osprey really are nice scopes for cheep. As everyone has said though, don't expect to get from a cheep scope what you'll get from and top dollar one. I've tried several brands of cheep scopes and the Osprey is as good and most times better than any of the others in $200.00 to $300.00 range. After having the chance to compare the Osprey 10-42X50 to my new Nightforce 8-32x56 I can truthfully say the Osprey is a lot of scope for the money. I don't feel like they're lacking all that much when I shoot my rifles that are still equipped with Ospreys. Do I like the Nightforce a lot better? Yep! But I also paid a LOT more for it but I won't be replacing the other Ospreys in the near future either.
They were $150.00 here http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=453841 but they're sold out. Don't know if they will be restocking.
$230.00 here. http://www.opticsplanet.net/osprey-...icle-30mm-tube-ta-riflescope-ta104050imd.html
The Ospreys come equipped with high rings. If you should purchase one you'll probably want to get some medium height rings.
Good luck and have fun.
Jerry
Ps, for your viewing pleasure
06 with Osprey and Boyd's stock.
06 with Nightforce in Bell and Carson stock.
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golfnutrlv
New member
+1!!! THe shooter's ability is far more vital than the equipment. The best rifle/scope/ammunition combo will not make a shooter out of an incompetent.
That's right. But we are talking the other way round I believe.
The scoped rifle is in fact not a rifle, but a system. Consisting of the rifle, scope, mount, ammo, and optionally a bipod. And as any other chain, this chain is as strong as it's weakest link.
So it's good to have the whole chain about evenly strong. If you buy an expensive rifle chambered for an unusual and expensive round, and put a cheap scope on it, the whole system will be shooting cheap. Plus, you will be shooting cheap while paying for expensive ammo and wearing out your expensive barrel.
So if I'm thinking a low cost scoped rifle, I'd divide the money I want to pay by 2 and the result is the rough price estimate for both rifle and scope+mount. If I need to save on something it would be rather the rifle, not the scope+mount. The rifle would be in an affordable and common caliber which can be easily reloaded (a lot of component available).
Also I might wait with the bipod for some time, and use cheap and good sandbags instead.
Clearwater82
Inactive
Never go cheap on a scope especially since you spent quite a bit on the rifle.
I also have a savage 12 but in .308 Win. Mounted on top a Leupold 6.5-20x scope with Picatinny rail base and rings. It shoots just under half inch groups at 200 meters with 168gr Sierra Match King bullets.
If you still insist to go cheap then buy a fixed power scope such as 10x. I have used a 6x scope on another .308 for hunting. I can still manage to hit out to 350 meters from a rest with the 6x.
90% of the time, I don't need more than that. As you increase magnification, the eye relief will decrease. For .338 magnum I dial the power down to 4x.
Swivel bipod is much better than the fixed one. You can adjust for uneven terrain aside from the legs. Harris bipods are good ones.
I also have a savage 12 but in .308 Win. Mounted on top a Leupold 6.5-20x scope with Picatinny rail base and rings. It shoots just under half inch groups at 200 meters with 168gr Sierra Match King bullets.
If you still insist to go cheap then buy a fixed power scope such as 10x. I have used a 6x scope on another .308 for hunting. I can still manage to hit out to 350 meters from a rest with the 6x.
90% of the time, I don't need more than that. As you increase magnification, the eye relief will decrease. For .338 magnum I dial the power down to 4x.
Swivel bipod is much better than the fixed one. You can adjust for uneven terrain aside from the legs. Harris bipods are good ones.
Lots of threads on scope quality and their relevance, a search will provide hours of reading.
For some, a "lower" end scope will suffice. Especially if you're shooting at known ranges, don't rely much on accurate tracking, and IF the scope holds zero well, there's no problem.
I have this "Midway" BSA scope on a long range 7mm.-08 and shoot it at 565 yards- it holds zero perfectly, and tracks "OK". The knobs are mushy, eye relief sucks, but it gets the job done. I bought it based on all the positive reviews and it works for the money.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/96...side-focus-glass-etched-mil-dot-reticle-matte
Bottom line is, buy as much scope as you can afford and you'll never be disappointed.
For some, a "lower" end scope will suffice. Especially if you're shooting at known ranges, don't rely much on accurate tracking, and IF the scope holds zero well, there's no problem.
I have this "Midway" BSA scope on a long range 7mm.-08 and shoot it at 565 yards- it holds zero perfectly, and tracks "OK". The knobs are mushy, eye relief sucks, but it gets the job done. I bought it based on all the positive reviews and it works for the money.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/96...side-focus-glass-etched-mil-dot-reticle-matte
Bottom line is, buy as much scope as you can afford and you'll never be disappointed.