buckshot for deer ?
- Thread starter J270
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Barnacle Brad
New member
Point taken but go figure...
I am not comparing musket balls to buckshot any more that there is roundness and velocity involved!
The more you guys talk about sectional densities and what not, the more I think you have no real world experience with it. All it takes is one pellet to take down a deer. That one pellet is lethal as much as any other DRT round you can deliver. Wow! Get over it!!!
Yeah but...please don't raise the bar and go there. Within it's limits it is a killer - else it wouldn't be an option.
I am not comparing musket balls to buckshot any more that there is roundness and velocity involved!
The more you guys talk about sectional densities and what not, the more I think you have no real world experience with it. All it takes is one pellet to take down a deer. That one pellet is lethal as much as any other DRT round you can deliver. Wow! Get over it!!!
Yeah but...please don't raise the bar and go there. Within it's limits it is a killer - else it wouldn't be an option.
Then your comparison is pretty pointless.
Sorry if talking about sectional density is too much like book larnin' for you, but that doesn't make the sectional density deficiencies of buckshot any less true. Sure buckshot can be lethal within its limits, but the point - which you seem determined to ignore - is that its limits are extremely short, especially compared to more modern alternatives.
I once killed a medium sized 6 point mule deer with a round of Dixie triball 3inch.
The range was about 60 yards and it was DRT. As far as 00 or 000 buck goes I have never shot a deer with it.
Dixie triball is a great round. It has 3 60 caliber round balls that seem to hit like a sledge hammer.
The range was about 60 yards and it was DRT. As far as 00 or 000 buck goes I have never shot a deer with it.
Dixie triball is a great round. It has 3 60 caliber round balls that seem to hit like a sledge hammer.
here in europe we hunt roedeer with shotguns driven style
yes they are small compared to other deer and some people don't want us to do it but it works
we don't use buckshot , no need, us2-4 works fine
25meters tops thou
it is said quasi-scientific that it is not the bloodloss that kills them but the hydrostatic(?) shock
I took a roedeer with a 24grams trapp shell to, was coming from the range and the fella before me hit a deer with his car and it was limping away
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Every adult deer I ever shot at with 00-Buck even at very close range while positioned on the ground. All managed to run away on 3-legs or instinctively I knowing its rib cage was badly damaged.
00-Buck. It does create a terrific amount of hemorrhaging. I found if I could stay on the animals track for the first 50 yards or so. My deer usually became easier to track there after due to its noticeable blood loss and could [almost] count on it expiring within reasonable distance from where it was shot. Basically 00-Buck is 33 cal round ball shot. Without striking a bone those 9 pellets offered little in the way of expansion performance from what I've seen. BTW. I actually was instructed to shoot deer in their necks with 00-buck by those older and wiser fellows I hunted with. But seldom given the opportunity for such shots. Thus the deer's rib cage I did managed to aim at on some very, very, up close fleeing deer. When having that darn awful shoulder bruising Montgomery Wards Ten Star 12 ga. along. A shotgun having a clipped 20" barrel my Father was even hesitant to shoot when loaded with Buck Shot or Slug.
Back in days when I party hunted where all this Buck Shot shooting took place. Making Post and Drives was common practice. Many Drivers like myself carried or were told to carry single shot shotguns loaded with 00-Buck verses those on Post sitting in tree stands with deer rifles in hand waiting for their chance. We Drivers got the first glimpse of deer moving out front of us and were told not to shoot at them. But those coming back. Trying to pass thru the line or in-between us Drivers to safety. Those were fair game if we Drivers could get a safe shot off. (one had to know at all times where his fellow Drivers on each side were walking to accommodate such shooting behavior.) Most of the time I was to preoccupied to try. (going thru_ over_ or around some miserable bushes had my attention verses something brown bearing down on me at near full clip.) No doubt it was a definite challenge to get a killing shot off under those conditions. Especially so at a piece of Speed Beef on the fly so close you could almost touch it. But on occasion I did managed to fill the folks freezer hunting that way.
Would I advocate someone doing the same as I did while participating in Post & Drives. Absolutely not!! How our party got by all those years without anyone being shot. I guess it was the "Luck of the Irish" in a few of us that must have helped.
00-Buck. It does create a terrific amount of hemorrhaging. I found if I could stay on the animals track for the first 50 yards or so. My deer usually became easier to track there after due to its noticeable blood loss and could [almost] count on it expiring within reasonable distance from where it was shot. Basically 00-Buck is 33 cal round ball shot. Without striking a bone those 9 pellets offered little in the way of expansion performance from what I've seen. BTW. I actually was instructed to shoot deer in their necks with 00-buck by those older and wiser fellows I hunted with. But seldom given the opportunity for such shots. Thus the deer's rib cage I did managed to aim at on some very, very, up close fleeing deer. When having that darn awful shoulder bruising Montgomery Wards Ten Star 12 ga. along. A shotgun having a clipped 20" barrel my Father was even hesitant to shoot when loaded with Buck Shot or Slug.
Back in days when I party hunted where all this Buck Shot shooting took place. Making Post and Drives was common practice. Many Drivers like myself carried or were told to carry single shot shotguns loaded with 00-Buck verses those on Post sitting in tree stands with deer rifles in hand waiting for their chance. We Drivers got the first glimpse of deer moving out front of us and were told not to shoot at them. But those coming back. Trying to pass thru the line or in-between us Drivers to safety. Those were fair game if we Drivers could get a safe shot off. (one had to know at all times where his fellow Drivers on each side were walking to accommodate such shooting behavior.) Most of the time I was to preoccupied to try. (going thru_ over_ or around some miserable bushes had my attention verses something brown bearing down on me at near full clip.) No doubt it was a definite challenge to get a killing shot off under those conditions. Especially so at a piece of Speed Beef on the fly so close you could almost touch it. But on occasion I did managed to fill the folks freezer hunting that way.
Would I advocate someone doing the same as I did while participating in Post & Drives. Absolutely not!! How our party got by all those years without anyone being shot. I guess it was the "Luck of the Irish" in a few of us that must have helped.
Barnacle Brad
New member
I think what is being lost in these comments is that the OP really only wanted to know how far out to expect shot to be effective. He did not offer why he would be shotgunning versus rifle, but so what? Sometimes this forum acts like morality police and discourage folks from using weapons they personally feel are unethical. A lot of guys posting on this thread have never even put buck shot in their guns much less killed deer with it, but that doesn't keep them from arguing against its use. If you challenge them, they attack your intelligence and lack of edumacation, like only ignorant inbreds would use such an archaic form of weaponry. News flash! There are many legitimate reasons one would load up with buck shot, whether rifle restricted GMUs, population densities, or heavy cover situations. Ours as members of this forum is not to judge, discourage or demean, but to answer the question without going off into the weeds. Most importantly - if you have no reference, it is okay not to comment at all...
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Opinions, opinions, opinions.
Ya gotta love 'em. For what they are.
Not much.
However "interesting" is a kind word that comes to mind.
Here's the skinny on buckshot for use on deer sized game.
I have a ton of experience with std. 9 pel 00 buck loads & toss in more than a modicum of shooting with 0, #1, #2, #3, & #4. I hand load buckshot for special applications, like someday when I might not be too crippled to get out & call yotes.
I've developed #3, & #4 buck in 3" mags that are effective ON PAPER out to 60 yards on yote type targets. These are loaded slowly & painstakingly with buffer & shot hand stacked in the wad for best performance. P.I.T.A. but I need only load 25 or so. These are NOT deer worthy. Most buck at distances past 50 yards loose lot of energy.
The roundball being a very inefficient projectile.
About buckshot and the roundball in the front loading rifle?????
Come on now. That's apples to swiss cheese and not a fair comparison at all.
Remember in longrilfe & military musket days a SMALL bore was .50 caliber.
Buckshot is .38 & smaller & the roundball from a .50 cal. muzzle loader will be around 1500 f.p.s. The round buckshot might be lucky to break 1250 f.p.s. from the std. 12 bore load. Get it?
When I & my sgt. developed the SWAT team & chose weapons we examined buck very closely, shooting literally cases (ouch
) of buck of different sizes all in the std. 12 bore load thru the std. 870 riot gun, 20" with sights & i/c choke.
We determined the MAX EFFECTIVE range of that load of 00 buck
(Rem. & Win.) was just 25 yards. Indeed we sometimes completely missed a torso target with ALL 9 pels of 00 buck. Not often but it did happen.
For "sporting applications range can be increased a bit by using plated shot, copper or nickel, size 00, mod choke. You might maybe get 34 to 40 yards from your s.g. & load but ONLY IF YOU PATTERN your weapon at your set max distance.
Using a super turkey full choke & buckshot is BAD ADVICE. I suggest no one do that. Shot charges compress going thru a tight choke, buckshot won't compress as well so a dangerous situation can occure when forcing really big lead balls thru a really tight choke. Bad idea.
Pattern the load & s.g. That's the key.
How many of you would knock off the sights of your rifle, use only the front sight, and go deer hunting without so much as trying to see how your now crippled rifle performs?
About Dixie and the TriBall load.
It's absolutely worth giving that load a try. 3 large balls (buck?) will stay more closely together in flight for up to around 50 yards. But patterning is the only way to know for sure.
Dixie makes some darned good, thinking outside of the box, s.g. loads and they are not all that expensive.
I never tired the TriBall as untill this year Ohioans were not allowed buck except in certain crowded area. Now were are allowed (this fall) rifles of certain calibers. Buck only in certain crowded urban districts.
Everyone that uses a s.g. with any shot charge should pattern the s.g. with the choke selected for whatever use.
Pattern. It ain't hard and you need not be anal about it.
Ya gotta love 'em. For what they are.
Not much.
However "interesting" is a kind word that comes to mind.
Here's the skinny on buckshot for use on deer sized game.
I have a ton of experience with std. 9 pel 00 buck loads & toss in more than a modicum of shooting with 0, #1, #2, #3, & #4. I hand load buckshot for special applications, like someday when I might not be too crippled to get out & call yotes.
I've developed #3, & #4 buck in 3" mags that are effective ON PAPER out to 60 yards on yote type targets. These are loaded slowly & painstakingly with buffer & shot hand stacked in the wad for best performance. P.I.T.A. but I need only load 25 or so. These are NOT deer worthy. Most buck at distances past 50 yards loose lot of energy.
The roundball being a very inefficient projectile.
About buckshot and the roundball in the front loading rifle?????
Come on now. That's apples to swiss cheese and not a fair comparison at all.
Remember in longrilfe & military musket days a SMALL bore was .50 caliber.
Buckshot is .38 & smaller & the roundball from a .50 cal. muzzle loader will be around 1500 f.p.s. The round buckshot might be lucky to break 1250 f.p.s. from the std. 12 bore load. Get it?
When I & my sgt. developed the SWAT team & chose weapons we examined buck very closely, shooting literally cases (ouch
) of buck of different sizes all in the std. 12 bore load thru the std. 870 riot gun, 20" with sights & i/c choke.We determined the MAX EFFECTIVE range of that load of 00 buck
(Rem. & Win.) was just 25 yards. Indeed we sometimes completely missed a torso target with ALL 9 pels of 00 buck. Not often but it did happen.
For "sporting applications range can be increased a bit by using plated shot, copper or nickel, size 00, mod choke. You might maybe get 34 to 40 yards from your s.g. & load but ONLY IF YOU PATTERN your weapon at your set max distance.
Using a super turkey full choke & buckshot is BAD ADVICE. I suggest no one do that. Shot charges compress going thru a tight choke, buckshot won't compress as well so a dangerous situation can occure when forcing really big lead balls thru a really tight choke. Bad idea.
Pattern the load & s.g. That's the key.
How many of you would knock off the sights of your rifle, use only the front sight, and go deer hunting without so much as trying to see how your now crippled rifle performs?
About Dixie and the TriBall load.
It's absolutely worth giving that load a try. 3 large balls (buck?) will stay more closely together in flight for up to around 50 yards. But patterning is the only way to know for sure.
Dixie makes some darned good, thinking outside of the box, s.g. loads and they are not all that expensive.
I never tired the TriBall as untill this year Ohioans were not allowed buck except in certain crowded area. Now were are allowed (this fall) rifles of certain calibers. Buck only in certain crowded urban districts.
Everyone that uses a s.g. with any shot charge should pattern the s.g. with the choke selected for whatever use.
Pattern. It ain't hard and you need not be anal about it.
Jack O'Conner
New member
Buckshot fired from a FULL choke at short range is very effective. By short range I mean to state 30 yards or less.
Jack
Jack
Saltydog235
New member
BUCK (as in the male portion of the deer species) Shot is not suitable for deer?????? Think about that for a moment. Reckon we should rename it to something like "Large Lead Pellet Shot Only Suitable for Coyotes, Self Defense and Close in Targets Posing and Immediate Threat Shot".
I wonder if a large number of the opposition has ever hunted with or actually used it on more than a piece of cardboard. We use buck here in the south on deer drives because shooting would mean you're going home hungry. Effective and necessary in certain situations.
I wonder if a large number of the opposition has ever hunted with or actually used it on more than a piece of cardboard. We use buck here in the south on deer drives because shooting would mean you're going home hungry. Effective and necessary in certain situations.
Saltydog235
New member
Sure they have. It's coming out of a shotgun, last I checked, shotguns were limited range tools. 50-60yds is the max effective range in most instances with anything but a slug. Although it will kill at further ranges.
I, no lie, killed a wood duck stone dead at 80 yds with heavi-shot one day. One pellet straight through the melon
Goes back to know your gun, your patterns and your limitations. It's a game of chance with a shotgun. The closer you are the better your odds but you aren't killing dinner if you aren't slapping that trigger.
The issue with buck shot is not whether it'll kill or not. It's about the reliability and humaneness of the kill at typical hunting distances.
You will note the chokes used by those who advocate buckshot are tight. That's what makes or helps make their buck effective. However, the shot does lose energy, fast, past 30ish yards and if the choke is looser, the pattern will be too.
"...abilities of round balls in our history..." Typical battles were fought at well under 50 yards. At 75 to 100, a troopie was extremely unlucky if he got hit.
"...One pellet straight through the melon..." Means the duck was unlucky. Not that 80 yards is a good idea. Had one duck with 2 pellets in him one time. Thought he got scared to death.
You will note the chokes used by those who advocate buckshot are tight. That's what makes or helps make their buck effective. However, the shot does lose energy, fast, past 30ish yards and if the choke is looser, the pattern will be too.
"...abilities of round balls in our history..." Typical battles were fought at well under 50 yards. At 75 to 100, a troopie was extremely unlucky if he got hit.
"...One pellet straight through the melon..." Means the duck was unlucky. Not that 80 yards is a good idea. Had one duck with 2 pellets in him one time. Thought he got scared to death.
Barnacle Brad
New member
So again I point out that philosophical differences of opinion regarding buck shot use are off topic.
Here is a challenge:
Do not comment on this thread unless you have either killed or wounded a deer with buck shot. If you leave a comment, please tell us specifics of the incident like the type of shotgun, load, distance, whether the shot resulted in a kill or non lethal wound, and what the target was (head, neck, shoulder, poke and hope, etc..) Perhaps we can find a pattern?
I will start:
Black tail doe
Rem Wingmaster 2.75"
0 buck
20 yds
Head shot
Dead before hitting the ground
Here is a challenge:
Do not comment on this thread unless you have either killed or wounded a deer with buck shot. If you leave a comment, please tell us specifics of the incident like the type of shotgun, load, distance, whether the shot resulted in a kill or non lethal wound, and what the target was (head, neck, shoulder, poke and hope, etc..) Perhaps we can find a pattern?
I will start:
Black tail doe
Rem Wingmaster 2.75"
0 buck
20 yds
Head shot
Dead before hitting the ground
Ok Brad, If I think real hard I can think of just 1 deer I ever shot at with buckshot died.
12ga Mossberg pump, poly choke set at full
3" mag 000 buck,
Range about 30 yds
full broadside hit, counted 9 hits along the body with 3 passing thru. DRT.
The deer was running full tilt from right to left, it was just like shooting a duck.
12ga Mossberg pump, poly choke set at full
3" mag 000 buck,
Range about 30 yds
full broadside hit, counted 9 hits along the body with 3 passing thru. DRT.
The deer was running full tilt from right to left, it was just like shooting a duck.
Gunplummer
New member
3" magnums were not even around when I used the buckshot(00 2 3/4). As I said before, I would have to be real close to use it again. The amount of deer hit and lost with slugs is pretty bad. How can buckshot be any better? My opinion: If you want to use it, use it with a little self control.
Saltydog235
New member
14yo Shooting a Remington Mod 11
Whitetail doe on a late September dog drive
2 3/4" #1 Buck
Shot 10'
Blew the top of her head off between the ears.
She ran off to never be recovered.
16yo Browning Citori Hunter
Whitetail 6pt buck on October dog drive
3" OO buck
Shot 50-60yds
Barrel lead ahead of the nose, Walkers and Black N Tans close behind
Let both barrels go, 11 pellets in the head, chest and neck.
Piled up within 30yds of the shot.
39yo Benelli SBE with extension
Sounder of Hogs over a feeder
Mix of buck from 3.5" #4 to 3" OO and all sorts in between
Feeder goes off, they pile in
Shot 20-40yds
Let loose with the chopper and didn't stop killing until it was empty
Most were dead, wounded ones got a boot or whopped with a branch.
Many other instances in between.
If you aren't shooting, then you aren't going to be successful. Humane kills are great, do you humane killers kill every bird or rabbit you stroke a scattergun at?
Whitetail doe on a late September dog drive
2 3/4" #1 Buck
Shot 10'
Blew the top of her head off between the ears.
She ran off to never be recovered.
16yo Browning Citori Hunter
Whitetail 6pt buck on October dog drive
3" OO buck
Shot 50-60yds
Barrel lead ahead of the nose, Walkers and Black N Tans close behind
Let both barrels go, 11 pellets in the head, chest and neck.
Piled up within 30yds of the shot.
39yo Benelli SBE with extension
Sounder of Hogs over a feeder
Mix of buck from 3.5" #4 to 3" OO and all sorts in between
Feeder goes off, they pile in
Shot 20-40yds
Let loose with the chopper and didn't stop killing until it was empty
Most were dead, wounded ones got a boot or whopped with a branch.
Many other instances in between.
If you aren't shooting, then you aren't going to be successful. Humane kills are great, do you humane killers kill every bird or rabbit you stroke a scattergun at?
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Saltydog235
New member
The point is that you have to use judgement with the scattergun. I would have loved to kill that duck at 25-40yds, he just didn't want to get hit when I shot at him then, I honestly fired that shot in frustration but the bird died stone dead. Pinpoint accuracy isn't the purpose of a shot gun, putting a wall of lead downrange is but, if you don't pull the trigger, you'll never have success.
Again, you want pinpoint kills at ranges over 50-60yds, choose something else. Pattern your shotgun with different loads and know what it will do. Don't be stupid about it but quit being so anal about things. I'm sure more deer are wounded by bowhunters than buckshot every year.
globemaster3
New member
When did the OP die and leave Brad in charge?
I've got literally a couple truckloads of deer (97 Ford F-150 short bed) shot with 3"mag 00 Buck as the deer depredation manager at McGuire AFB (prior to the joint basing). Most were shot at night, with a spotlight, 20 yards or less, and aimpoint was the head. No problems there.
When we stretched the range out, we found significant pattern consistency issues. DRT at 20 yards turned into an iffy proposition at 60 yards plus. Worst case: I had one deer I shot at, on a trot, passing left to right, and the only pellet to make contact broke the elbow joint on a front leg at ~60 yards. Trying to catch that yearling doe proved a challenge.
If I have the choice in a stand/slip hunting environment, I chose slugs. I am not a fan of drives due to crossfire potentials and not knowing exactly where everyone else is at.
I've got literally a couple truckloads of deer (97 Ford F-150 short bed) shot with 3"mag 00 Buck as the deer depredation manager at McGuire AFB (prior to the joint basing). Most were shot at night, with a spotlight, 20 yards or less, and aimpoint was the head. No problems there.
When we stretched the range out, we found significant pattern consistency issues. DRT at 20 yards turned into an iffy proposition at 60 yards plus. Worst case: I had one deer I shot at, on a trot, passing left to right, and the only pellet to make contact broke the elbow joint on a front leg at ~60 yards. Trying to catch that yearling doe proved a challenge.
If I have the choice in a stand/slip hunting environment, I chose slugs. I am not a fan of drives due to crossfire potentials and not knowing exactly where everyone else is at.