Buck-N-Ball

[shortwave]

Please keep in mind I'm just interested in this Buck-N-Ball load and only started this thread to discuss it. I sure don't mean to stir up any animosity or make anyone think I'm trying to justify using it exclusively for HD.

Your shotgun, especially being "un-proven" to you, is all the more reason NOT to stuff it full of the B-and-B. Simply cause you don't yet know the POI with any load.
I wouldn't want to be slinging slugs or B-and-B with their penetrating characteristics out of any shotgun I haven't shot enough to know how the load is going to react.

Other than the Buck-N-Ball load, which I chose, what would you load an "unproven" shotgun with in a pinch? Let's just say for fun it's your only gun and you need to run something. What would you choose and why?

Given your above scenario of picking up an 'unproven' shotgun, if I had to load it with something in an emergency situation and considering it was a set-up like yours(mod.choke/18.5"bbl), I'd probably load up with 3 Buck for SD distance....
....Again, since I didn't know for sure the POI, I'd be concerned about over-penetration or missing my intended target using the B-and-B or slug and the heavier projectiles traveling into my neighbors house.

 

[Lee Lapin]

I'm in the 'shoot it, then decide' school also. I would absolutely rather not be using a shotgun setup I had not fired, and at least run until it was hot, for real world defense myself. YMMV of course.

A MOD choke barrel is apt to open up patterns with FliteControl loads at least to some degree. That particular barrel is a steal of a deal IMHO, when they can be found (Midway has 'em in their current flier, IIRC) and it works generally well with a lot of the 'big name' standard (not premium) buckshot loads. One of those barrels works very well with my limited stock of the classic old Estate SWAT buckshot load, which is no longer manufactured after the company was sold to ATK/Federal. But every shotgun barrel is pretty much a law unto itself, and there's no way of knowing how a given barrel will pattern - or even how reliable it's likely to be - without shooting it.

 

[azsixshooter]

Wow! My neighbors better be on their toes! If any zombies attack my house I might just be launching slugs that take a 90 degree turn when they exit my barrel!

Come on now, let's be realistic. I've never fired anything out of my shotgun (in 20 years of heavy use) that performed so insanely opposite of what I expected that I would deem it unsafe.

I really don't have any neighbors closer than about 125 yards in any direction so I think they are probably safe.

In my defense, I intended to pattern my barrel last weekend when I got it, but a 106F fever waylaid me for a bit. I'll be doing everything I can to get out this Sunday and get it sorted with 00Buck as I've been saying all along.

 

[shortwave]

Wow! My neighbors better be on their toes! If any zombies attack my house I might just be launching slugs that take a 90 degree turn when they exit my barrel!

Come on now, let's be realistic. I've never fired anything out of my shotgun (in 20 years of heavy use) that performed so insanely opposite of what I expected that I would deem it unsafe.

Fact is, you've installed a new bbl. you've admittedly never fired so you have no idea where your projectile(whatever they are) are going to hit. Missing a paper plate by a couple inch's with a slug at 20yds. will be several feet off at 100-150yds.

Far as safety goes, this is really a moot discussion at this point.

Good luck and have fun getting acquainted with your new setup.

 

[Al Den]

"Other than the Buck-N-Ball load, which I chose, what would you load an "unproven" shotgun with in a pinch? Let's just say for fun it's your only gun and you need to run something. What would you choose and why?"

#0, .32, Buck. Liklihood of hits, range, effect.

 

[SHR970]

The history of the buck and ball load is really interesting. I've read that George Washington was a huge fan of it and that it was used widely by General Meagher's "Irish Brigade" during the civil war with deadly effect, especially during the Battle Of Bloody Lane at Antietam.

There are a couple of reasons that B&B was used so prolifically during that period of time. If you have ever fired a Brown Bess, Enfield musket, or Springfield musket with the standard ball you would understand.

A Brown Bess is an 11 gauge gun (incorrectly called a 75 cal.) and is fed a .735" paper patched ball. You can hear the ball rattle down the barrel when you shoot it. Broad side of a barn accuracy is about all you can realistically expect from one at 50 yards. Pretty much the same for the smooth bores of the civil war era. The .mil crowd favored the smooth bore musket over the rifle for ease of loading and rate of fire.

The second issue that came into play was the dense cloud of smoke that would obscure the vision of the shooters after a couple or three volleys of fire. After the lines on both sides had fired a few volleys they were effectively firing blind. At that point it was bayonet charge time.

The buck part of the load was to simply give a gunner a chance to hit somebody with something; this was to make up for poor accuracy of a patch & ball as well as obscured vision due to smoke.

A 12 ga. shotgun shell with a round .690 ball in a standard wad is going to be more accurate than a smooth bore musket loaded with a patch and ball simply because the fit of projectile to bore is better. You do better still with a Foster or Brenneke slug.

 

[Al Den]

Of course the Brown Bess was an inaccurate gun -- it was a true military smoothbore meant for reliable and massed fire from shoulder-to-shouldered ranks into the same in a time when the bayonet was actually the main weapon. Remember that even a pellet-wounded enemy was as good if not better than a dead one -- they required aid and care off the field of batttle and behind the lines, and would likely die of their wounds eventually anyway.



Just to be clear, neither the CW Enfield (Pattern '58) nor the Springfield RIFLE muskets ('55, '61 and '63) were smoothbores. Furthermore, though they were rifled they used type of minie-balls which were a slightly undersized conical bullet for easy loading in a blackpowder rifle and the skirt would expand upon firing into the rifling to impart spin, hence accuracy.

 

[SHR970]

Al,

You are correct on the 58 Enfield and the models of Springfield you cited.

I should have said Harper's Ferry was a smooth bore and quite in use (many had not been converted to rifled barrels). The 42 Springfield was very much in inventory in both the North and the South. Same as the Harper's Ferry, not all were converted to rifled barrels.

 

[Al Den]

Well, Harper's Ferry was an armory like Springfield. They MADE Springfield models (which are really "U.S." models) there although not generally quite as well as at Springfield Armory for reasons I won't go into now, only they'd be marked Harpers Ferry. Yes, there were many older weapons including many 1842 smoothbores (first general issue caplocks issued in the field during The War with Mexico -- the troops hated 'em) and more modern rifle muskets made and captured at Harper's Ferry by the Confederates, as well as equipment. Harpers Ferry actually did particularly produce a coupla rifles (the 1803 and 1841 or "Mississippi").

Both sites have great museums today.