Brush up on your History

[Doug.38PR]

The United States will never agree to dissolve itself voluntarily

I don't know, other countries throughout history have in one way or another. There is nothing mystical about the United States (Despite what Lincolnites who see the Gettysburg address as Holy Scripture might say).

There were men in the Founding Fathers day who thought the North & South (or what some back then called North and West) the two sections should part as brothers as there were so many cultural differences as Thomas Jefferson I think put it.

If you looked at America today, we are at least 6 different countries. The South (Texas to Virginia), The West Rocky Mountain to Great Plains states, The North (Midwest & New England), Left Coast (California, Washington and Oregon), Alaska and Hawaii.

Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England have by war or as a matter of fact stayed apart throughout the centuries (despite wars and interroyal marriages that bind them together or a hundred years or so). It is only modernity with it's idea of "great nations" that says that we must all have a big country in order to survive. It just isn't natural.

 

[JR47]

gc70 and Doug.38PR, good points. I, for one, hope that I never live to see the resulting mayhem of the dissolution of various nations. It would most likely be a time of great deprivation. More than I would like to think about on Christmas.


Merry Christmas, gentlemen, and God Bless.

 

[Hugh Damright]

Hugh, a personal "thank you," as I have enjoyed our little "debate" in this thread. I look forward to more of the same.

Back at you, Antipitas ... I have learned from this thread, and I bet others have too.

The idea that the fifty states would somehow harmoniously dissolve the Union, then work out their own trade, law, and other treaties and agreements is the stuff that requires 1960s recreational pharmaceuticals to envision.

Personally, I don't have a vision of the States all dissolving the Union and going it alone. But I do have a vision of secession.

If I imagine the States all being independent from each other, it seem to me that they would soon form alliances for their mutual welfare ... but would the States freely choose the same alliance as we have now? Or are there regional differences which naturally split us apart? For instance, suppose that the South has lots of illegal immigrants ... and suppose that the North wants to make them all Citizens so they can get more votes for their Northern Party ... is it so crazy to imagine that the Southern States might have to secede and form a compact amongst themselves as the only way to preserve their general welfare?

Of course, if there was a USA and a CSA, I assume they would make a treaty, a very limited treaty, regarding a military alliance, a trade alliance, and so on.

 

[Hugh Damright]

I think it should be stated here that, although I see the US Constitution as a compact between Virginians, Georgians, and so on ... it is my understanding that the Constitution would have failed in some States if a "popular vote" had been taken. It might be that most Virginians would not have ratified the US Constitution, but Virginians chose delegates who chose to ratify it. So, if I say that the State of Virginia ratified the US Constitution, I don't mean that the Virginia Legislature ratified it, nor that the people of Virginia ratified it by a popular vote ... but the point is that the source of authority i.e. sovereignty resides in the body of Virginians, whether it be expressed by a popular vote, a State Legislature, a State Convention, or however.

As noted at http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_history.html, "Hamilton figured that the majority of the people in New York actually opposed the Constitution, and it is probable that a majority of people in the entire country opposed it", yet it begins "We the People".