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Browning HP mag release
- Thread starter ammo.crafter
- Start date
One of the most significant things I ever heard Mas say (paraphrased) is "when you testify in court, you are under oath. The lawyers (including the DA) are NOT!"
Its been discussed before, often.
That is one opinion. I happen to agree with it. But the counter argument is "that it is just YOUR opinion, NOT the opinion of the people who built the gun, and you, the defendant here in court today are smarter than they are?? "
"Deliberately disabled, by removing a safety device" will be added to anything else they can find through out your entire life, including internet posts, to show a "pattern" of "reckless disregard" for human life and safety, etc....
They will do this to try and convince the jury that you wanted, even sought out the confrontation, and are therefore responsible for what happened.
And, as others have said, the greatest risk is not criminal court...
Its been discussed before, often.
Any decent lawyer would squish that in a heart beat. "It's not removing a safety device. It's fixing a European design flaw that causes poor trigger function.
That is one opinion. I happen to agree with it. But the counter argument is "that it is just YOUR opinion, NOT the opinion of the people who built the gun, and you, the defendant here in court today are smarter than they are?? "
"Deliberately disabled, by removing a safety device" will be added to anything else they can find through out your entire life, including internet posts, to show a "pattern" of "reckless disregard" for human life and safety, etc....
They will do this to try and convince the jury that you wanted, even sought out the confrontation, and are therefore responsible for what happened.
And, as others have said, the greatest risk is not criminal court...
Walt Sherrill
New member
RickB said:The two major practical shooting sports do not recognize the mag disconnector as a safety, and some police departments do not allow their officers to use pistols with mag disconnectors as their presence is believed to be unsafe for the officer.
When I first started shooting IDPA some years back, IDPA wouldn't allow participants to remove or disable the magazine disconnect. That has changed and it's now allowed in all divisions. (I didn't compete with anything that had a mag disconnect so I didn't keep up with that rule change.) I don't think modifying (or disabling) the mag safety was legal in USPSA until relatively recently (2014?)
Whether it was a valid characteristic or not, some Law Enforcement agencies viewed a magazine disconnect as a PLUS rather than a negative, and quite a few LEOs being trained in weapons retention practices were taught that, if necessary, they could eject the mag and make the gun inoperative.
I don't think any S&W Third Generation guns - the 9mm or .40s, at least -- were available WITHOUT a mag disconnect, and they were some of the most widely used semi-autos in the LEO community until Glock, with it's deep pockets, came on the scene in the '80s and '90s.
BHPs and most Ruger semi-autos still come with mag disconnects, and S&W M&Ps are still available WITH (or WITHOUT) mag disconnects.
I don't think the magazine disconnect makes a gun SAFER in the hands of someone intent upon using lethal force -- as would be the case with the situations we're discussing here. But that feature MIGHT prevent some negligent discharges -- when there was a round in the chamber and no mag in the gun. That's a DIFFERENT kind of safety issue, and irrelevant to the civil suits being discussed.
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gasmandave
New member
As this thread has gotten way off target (pardon the pun), I tried to get the mag disco out but it seems stuck. I watched the video several times but still no go. I have a FN High Power that was an old Israeli pistol. Any suggestions?
Although I have routinely removed the magazine disconnect from all of my shooter Hi Powers and not worry about it, you might want to research some of the threads on this forum about liability in court in case you have to use your HP for self defense. Personally, I think it verges on paranoia, but several "experts" have cautioned that removal of an alleged safety device can go against you in court in a SD scenario.
Garbage. The bottom line is this - If there's a deadly force encounter, and you have only a brick, and you beat some guy to death with a brick, do you get sued because you haven't been trained to use a brick in such a manner? No. Do you get sued because the brick wasn't used in the way it is supposed be used? No. If you shoot somebody that needs some shooting, the fact that the magazine safety was non-existent won't matter. Did that being removed make the bad guy more dead? No. Did it somehow cause you to shoot him more "meanly"? No. Does it mean anything at all? Absolutely not.
Here's where the problem will come in for you. When you shoot somebody that didn't need no shootin', or brick somebody that didn't need no brickin', or stab somebody that don't need no stabbin'....................... Even if you're gun is to factory spec and unaltered, they will still pick you apart.
So - If you're right, it doesn't matter how you got there, and if your wrong, EVERYTHING matters.
As this thread has gotten way off target (pardon the pun), I tried to get the mag disco out but it seems stuck. I watched the video several times but still no go. I have a FN High Power that was an old Israeli pistol. Any suggestions?
Remove the trigger group from the gun and fully disassemble it. You can remove it that way.
As this thread has gotten way off target (pardon the pun), I tried to get the mag disco out but it seems stuck. I watched the video several times but still no go. I have a FN High Power that was an old Israeli pistol. Any suggestions?
Some older Hi-Powers have an annular cut in the trigger pin and it is retained in place by one leg of the trigger spring (underneath). To get the trigger pin out will require a little bit of force, by which I mean tapping from the right side until the pin is free of the rear leg of the trigger spring. Use either a plastic hammer or a piece of aluminum; Brass could possibly mar the pin.
Once the pin is removed, very carefully remove the trigger assembly out the bottom of the frame; This might require a little bit of "fiddling" until you get the right angle for removal. Once the trigger assembly is out, just pivot the trigger lever until the mag disconnect comes shooting out the back. I would advise doing that inside of a plastic bag so you don't lose the part and the spring.
It's a bit of a PITA but, overall, not that complicated.
When you reassemble, I would also advise using a slave pin to hold the trigger spring in place while you try to get it back in the frame.
The trigger assembly comes out easier if first its lowered, wiggle it back and forth, than swing/turn the bottom/trigger forward, while pushing in the magazine safety from the back.
Sometime its nice to have more than just/only 2 hands. To push the safety, you have to reach in from the magazine well.
Sometime its nice to have more than just/only 2 hands. To push the safety, you have to reach in from the magazine well.
Here is a good video, about how to take it apart, and how to remove the trigger assembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epCevZP8LWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epCevZP8LWc
If you have a MKIII Hi power. While you have the trigger removed add a Wolf Extra Power Trigger Return Spring. Makes the MKIII trigger much nicer than standard.
How so? (Sounds interesting.)
It makes for a shorter trigger reset when the magazine disconnect is removed. The Wolfe extra power trigger return spring mimics the MK1 & MK2 trigger spring.
I removed the magazine disconnect in my 2 FN MK3 HP's. One has the Wolfe Spring one doesn't. The one with it has a much smoother trigger pull.
To save you some $ - only get the Wolfe Trigger spring. Don't waste your dollars on the Wolfe Spring pack for the HP. The recoil spring and mainspring in Wolfe pack are way too long.
Factory Browning / FN springs are the way to go if you want to replace the rest of the springs.
More reading here. Spring pack (corrected link):
http://www.handgunsandammunition.com/hi-power-forum/8244-hp-spring-replacement.html
Trigger return spring:
http://www.handgunsandammunition.co...g/2901-extra-power-trigger-return-spring.html
I removed the magazine disconnect in my 2 FN MK3 HP's. One has the Wolfe Spring one doesn't. The one with it has a much smoother trigger pull.
To save you some $ - only get the Wolfe Trigger spring. Don't waste your dollars on the Wolfe Spring pack for the HP. The recoil spring and mainspring in Wolfe pack are way too long.
Factory Browning / FN springs are the way to go if you want to replace the rest of the springs.
More reading here. Spring pack (corrected link):
http://www.handgunsandammunition.com/hi-power-forum/8244-hp-spring-replacement.html
Trigger return spring:
http://www.handgunsandammunition.co...g/2901-extra-power-trigger-return-spring.html
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Mentioned in the above correct link - for ordering factory springs, you can contact Browning's parts department directly at:
800-322-4626 Extension 2863
One other thing, you have to be real careful when re-installing the trigger pin. Took me a couple tries.
1st try - the pin snagged the trigger spring and snapped it in 1/2.
2nd try - new trigger spring was in the wrong place in relation to the trigger pin. Gun would fire but the trigger wouldn't reset.
3rd try - finally got it right - trigger spring in the right location = trigger resets.
Don't have the gun in front of me but IIRC, the trigger pin goes on top of the trigger return spring.
800-322-4626 Extension 2863
One other thing, you have to be real careful when re-installing the trigger pin. Took me a couple tries.
1st try - the pin snagged the trigger spring and snapped it in 1/2.
2nd try - new trigger spring was in the wrong place in relation to the trigger pin. Gun would fire but the trigger wouldn't reset.
3rd try - finally got it right - trigger spring in the right location = trigger resets.
Don't have the gun in front of me but IIRC, the trigger pin goes on top of the trigger return spring.
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