bringing firearm to nj for flight to ak

[maestro pistolero]

Here's an idea:

At the right time and with the proper preparation, planning and legal oversight, I would like to see an entire flight booked up by a group properly transporting firearms according to the FOPA.

We could take private coaches from, say, Philadelphia directly to the airport and check in en-masse in Newark for a flight into, say, Pittsburgh and then back through Newark for direct transportation back to PA. Everybody would line up to check in and declare the firearms at once.

Essentially DARE them to arrest the entire passenger list.

The monetary damages and political fallout from documented, malicious, and illegal enforcement activity could be tremendous. If they are unrepentant after they lose, do it again and again until their LE resources are exhausted and they don't have time or money left for anything else.

 

[maestro pistolero]

And then do it in New York City.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

good thought but our planes only fly in ak so it wouldnt work, ill just ship it

Please re-read the text I quoted in post #13. How to get the gun from NJ to AK is NOT your problem. Your problem is that it is not legal for you to have the gun in NJ 0-- at all.

 

[maestro pistolero]

Except under federal law in strict compliance with the firearms owners protection act. This is a technical point perhaps because it doesn't mean you won't be arrested.

So I wouldn't suggest an individual try this on their own, only that there is federal protection if you are traveling to a place where you may legally posses the firearms, FROM a place that you may legally possess them, if they are unloaded and locked in a hard sided container.

 

[jgcoastie]

Here's an idea:

At the right time and with the proper preparation, planning and legal oversight, I would like to see an entire flight booked up by a group properly transporting firearms according to the FOPA.

We could take private coaches from, say, Philadelphia directly to the airport and check in en-masse in Newark for a flight into, say, Pittsburgh and then back through Newark for direct transportation back to PA. Everybody would line up to check in and declare the firearms at once.

Essentially DARE them to arrest the entire passenger list.
The monetary damages and political fallout from documented, malicious, and illegal enforcement activity could be tremendous. If they are unrepentant after they lose, do it again and again until their LE resources are exhausted and they don't have time or money left for anything else.

emphasis mine

They would arrest the entire passenger list without a second thought.

Except under federal law in strict compliance with the firearms owners protection act. This is a technical point perhaps because it doesn't mean you won't be arrested.

So I wouldn't suggest an individual try this on their own, only that there is federal protection if you are traveling to a place where you may legally posses the firearms, FROM a place that you may legally possess them, if they are unloaded and locked in a hard sided container.

Federal law doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you take possession of the firearms while in New Jersey without the requsite FOID and registration. Without jumping through the proper legal hoops with NJ before you take possession of the firearms (locked hard-sided case or not) you would be in violation of NJ law. Period.

The only protection the FOPA gives you in this scenario is if you're flying from a state where you're legal to possess the firearms (for instance, Vermont), have a layover in New Jersey (where you do not take possession of the firearms, and arrive at your destination where you are legal to possess said firearms (for instance, Georgia). The moment you stop in NJ and take possession, they will arrest you.

 

[MLeake]

FOPA...

... As I understand it, would only apply in NJ if one were only transiting NJ. The stop to visit with the OP's parents would take FOPA out of the equation.

 

[carguychris]

... As I understand it, would only apply in NJ if one were only transiting NJ. The stop to visit with the OP's parents would take FOPA out of the equation.

+1. The problem with the FOPA is that it only applies when one is actually traveling. If you stop to visit someone, you have reached a destination, and have therefore ceased to travel.

 

[maestro pistolero]

+1. The problem with the FOPA is that it only applies when one is actually traveling. If you stop to visit someone, you have reached a destination, and have therefore ceased to travel.

Correct.

... As I understand it, would only apply in NJ if one were only transiting NJ. The stop to visit with the OP's parents would take FOPA out of the equation.

And correct.

Federal law doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you take possession of the firearms while in New Jersey without the requsite FOID and registration. Without jumping through the proper legal hoops with NJ before you take possession of the firearms (locked hard-sided case or not) you would be in violation of NJ law. Period.

FOPA protects travel THROUGH states, yes even NJ, provided the weapons are transported locked and unloaded, FROM a place they may be legally possessed, TO a place they may be legally possessed with no unnecessary stops.

I have no doubt that NJ LE would arrest regardless of strict adherence to the FOPA. My point is that, in my scenario, they would be doing it in violation of federal law and that it would be indefensible for them in federal court. Showing malice and flagrant disregard for federal law, they would be subject to money damages, as well as injunctive relief.

The only protection the FOPA gives you in this scenario is if you're flying from a state where you're legal to possess the firearms (for instance, Vermont), have a layover in New Jersey (where you do not take possession of the firearms, and arrive at your destination where you are legal to possess said firearms (for instance, Georgia). The moment you stop in NJ and take possession, they will arrest you.

The bolded part is not completely accurate. You may also drive through any state under strict compliance and adherence to the terms of the FOPA. The state would lose that battle in federal court and damages would be awarded.

 

[MLeake]

I would think that FOPA would cover the OP if he were driving directly to Newark and checking his firearms. In that case, an arrest might happen, but should be overturned, etc.

The OP's problem is that he's stated he'll be visiting NJ. If he got busted at Newark, but LE could establish he had been at his parents' house in NJ, the OP would be up the creek, as I understand it.

 

[brickeyee]

"I would think that FOPA would cover the OP if he were driving directly to Newark and checking his firearms. In that case, an arrest might happen, but should be overturned, etc."

He is not allowed to posses the weapon in NJ under NJ law.

 

[maestro pistolero]

Right. And the whole point of the section of the FOPA that covers travel is to federally trump state law in the limited, narrow context of travel directly through restrictive states.

 

[NJgunowner]

Actually they can even make the argument that driving through NJ to Newark airport to fly out constitutes a destination in the state, and therefore illegal. Long story short do NOT bring your guns here. You run the very real risk of getting a short jail stay, and even if they drop the charges you'll spend YEARS with lawyers to get them returned.

NJ has definite issues where gun rights are concerned. NJ is the reason I won't join the NRA. This state is ripe for a huge lawsuit on constitutional grounds yet the NRA has never tried to get it into the courts. When the NRA decides to fight for my rights in NJ instead maintaining the status quo, I'll join.

 

[MLeake]

brickeyee....

... see maestro pistolero's post above

I used FOPA multiple times for PCS transfers. Drove through NJ, NY, etc, all perfectly legally. Verified the law with base legal, looked up FOPA, etc, at those times.

So long as I did not delay my trip in NJ, NY, etc, I was fine.

I made sure to spend my nights in states where firearm possession was legal. However, I'm pretty sure FOPA would provide coverage for a rest stop, without undue delay, if a driver were too fatigued to continue.

What FOPA does NOT cover is any sort of extended stay, period.

 

[maestro pistolero]

Actually they can even make the argument that driving through NJ to Newark airport to fly out constitutes a destination in the state, and therefore illegal.

I would love to hear a state's attorney attempt to make the specious argument in federal court that an airport was a destination in and of itself. Unless perhaps one works at the airport.

 

[MLeake]

I believe they've tried it, maestro.... as I seem to recall reading about such an arrest having been made at either JFK or LGA. (Guy trying to check his firearm with the airline, in the manner required by the Feds, got arrested for having a gun in NYC.) Whether they succeeded or not with the case, I'm sure they made life unhappy for the gun owner for a while.

 

[NJgunowner]

It wouldn't be hard, and it's been done before. They aren't worried about the legalities. They want to make your life a living hell and they want everyone to hear about it to discourage anyone else from doing it, legal or not.


If you have to fly and take a firearm you are a lot better off flying out of phily.

 

[maestro pistolero]

I believe they've tried it, maestro.... as I seem to recall reading about such an arrest having been made at either JFK or LGA. (Guy trying to check his firearm with the airline, in the manner required by the Feds, got arrested for having a gun in NYC.) Whether they succeeded or not with the case, I'm sure they made life unhappy for the gun owner for a while.

The relative certainty that they would try this makes baiting them for a class action suit child's play.

At the right time, with the right folks, and with proper legal oversight, a carefully orchestrated event could shine the light of day on their shenanigans in a very public and defensible way. At the end of the road, there would be no more wiggle room without contempt being the result.

Once 'carry' is codified as protected outside the home, the basis for such a direct challenge broadens.

 

[NJgunowner]

In NJ the only place you can "carry to", and by carry I mean lock it your trunk unloaded, empty mag, is to the firing range unless you are moving. (and they put a guy in jail for 7 years for having his gun just as I described while moving, until Christie got him out)

NJ technically has concealed carry on the books, but the reality is the average person has ZERO chance to attaining it. I know retired police officers who have had to spend a couple of years waiting to get approved for concealed carry. Unless you're a millionaire with a battalion of lawyers or a security guard for the rich and famous you aren't getting one. PERIOD.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Hve we forgotten the original post, or did we not read it?

i am driving from where i live in colorado to my parents house in nj to visit before going back to work in alaska. i want to bring my 44 (and hunting rifle)with me as i need it for work. will i encounter problems trying to fly out of newark or if i were to get stopped in nj while in transit to my parents house? the gun is obviously legally purchased by me in CO. if this scenario is foolish whats the best way to get my gun to ak?

He is bringing the his guns TO New Jersey, FOR A VISIT. He is NOT legal to possess the firearms in New Jersey -- AT ALL -- without the requisite paperwork. Therefore, the FOPA does not apply to him AT ALL. A basic prerequisite of the FOPA is that you are traveling from a place where possession of the gun(s) is legal TO a place where possession of the gun(s) is legal. That simply doesn't apply here.

Since that doesn't apply here, FOPA will not apply anywhere along his inbound route. That's generally not going to be a problem in most places along the route, but he WILL be illegal the moment he crosses into New Jersey. Any talk about Federal law trumping state law (FOPA) is irrelevant, because he doesn't meet the criteria to invoke the protection of the Federal law.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I believe they've tried it, maestro.... as I seem to recall reading about such an arrest having been made at either JFK or LGA. (Guy trying to check his firearm with the airline, in the manner required by the Feds, got arrested for having a gun in NYC.) Whether they succeeded or not with the case, I'm sure they made life unhappy for the gun owner for a while.

Actually, it was at Newark Airport, although the arrest was made by NYNJ Transit Authority Police, not by NJ State or local police. The gentleman had a missed connection that resulted in his having the claim his luggage and spend the night in an airport hotel. He was arrested the next day when he tried to declare the gun in his luggage for the second leg of his flight.

He spent several DAYS in jail before he was able to make bail. Ultimately, the prosecutor dropped the charges so the case provides no useful court precedent, and the gentleman's suit against the Transit Authority for false arrest was recently dismissed. He wasn't convicted, but I'd guess the incident definitely ruined his day, weekend, month and year.

But this was a VERY different scenario than that proposed by the gentleman who opened this thread. The guy arrested at Newark very much was transiting through New Jersey in "travel" mode. The OP here is coming TO New Jersey specifically for a visit, so NJ is his destination. He is not traveling through on his way to another state where he can legally possess the firearms.