Breaking the hip or pelivs?

Good discussion.

The iliac arteries are very large. If you went high on them you nail the abdominal aorta, low and you get a femoral artery. Blood pressure would drop very fast, taking the BG out of the fight. The femoral artery cut is recomended for suicide (not by me) because it really works, and fast. Not like that mamby pamby wrist slashing.

I agree that trying to center the pelvis makes much more sense than going for the hip. Most people wouldn't be able to hit the hip anyway because most couldn't actually point to the joint with a pencil.

Lets say you miss arteries. We are bipedal. If your bullet is a good penetrator you are going to whack the hell out of an ilia (one side of the upper pelvis) or the sacrum (big triangular bone on the bottom of the spine), or go a tad high and whack the fifth lumbar vertebrae. If that bullet penetrates well you are going down, imho.

Deer can run well on three legs. Humans don't do well on one. Even if the bone isn't shattered, think of the impact shock transmitted to the very structure you walk on and maybe more important the lumbar and sacral nerves. Those nerves exit between lumbar vertabrae and the sacral nerves out the back of the sacrum. Lets say you screw up and miss major bone. Imagine the bullet slicing through the sciatic notch which is a space below the ilia and sacrum.

Ever seen someone with bad sciatica, as in where's the neurosurgeon 'cause I can't stand or walk? They just have pressure on a nerve, it isn't severed. Start cutting nerves with bullets down down here and the lower limbs don't work.

Maybe this shot does have an aura of 'folklore' about it, but there are very good anatomical and practical reasons for centering the pelvis.
 
While I'm sure a proper shot to the pelvis would be effective, I'll continue to train and plan on putting a couple in the center of mass and then evaluating their effect. I think the effective area to actually accomplish a stop to the pelvis is pretty small. Might as well go for a head shot if you're going for small targets...
 
My thought is, even if you don't break the pelvis, you are going to leave a hunk of lead in the BG's intestines. That enough should make someone not wanna keep fighting in an offensive position.
 
Perhaps, but if you shoot center of mass, you'll leave a hunk of lead in a lung or his heart, also a pretty effective fight stopper.
 
I've been taught to do the two chest and then 1 head before thinking about evaluating.

If you do just the two COM, you might see the guy shooting you.

Granted the head shot is different. time to move as I said before.
 
AC,

Per the iliac arteries- depends on what you think is very large I suppose. The aorta is only about a 3cm diameter, the iliacs about 1-1&1/2cm diameter. It will be pure luck hitting those.

"Blood pressure would drop very fast"
It is concievable that someones BP could drop to the point of unconciousness in 2 or 3 minutes at the very best. In all liklihood it is going to take much longer. For that period of time the BG is still shooting at you.

As far as bagging a nerve decreasing mobility. If you get very lucky and hit a nerve the BG may fall down. While he is down, he is still shooting at you.

As to breaking bones. Unless you disrupt the integrity of the pelvic ring in 2 places the structure will remain sound and the BG able to ambulate. This will be nearly impossible to do with a small projectile.

Don't get me wrong, it's going to hurt, but with a properly motivated attacker pain will probably not be much of an issue.

While I agree the pelvis has a rich vascular supply and peripheral(not part of the CNS)nerves vital for mobility, there is nothing that is going to cause a rapid physiologic incapacitation.

On the other hand the chest, neck, and head all have the possiblility of rapid physiological incapacitation by disrupting either the CNS, airway, or circulatory pump.

regards,

Olazul
 
See, aiming for COM (my first choice, too, as it should be) is done for purely cynical reasons; not because we're all Ubershooters who can shoot like Robby Leatham even when the air around us is thick with incoming lead, and are gonna put two through the same hole that takes a divot out of the goblin's ticker before exiting through his spine.

No, the reason we shoot COM is to allow for the fact that we are in all likelihood going to miss our point-of-aim. If you miss while aiming COM, you have high-value targets for a good six or so inches in any direction: lungs to either side and above, while if you jerk the trigger and shoot low and left, hey, that's the liver, an organ that most folks don't feel too active after getting shot in...

Whoops! Either our hypothetical perp is way whacked on something or wearing a vest or you're being mugged by a Vampire, because he just stopped two bullets to the upper-ish torso, but they didn't stop him. Decision time. Melon or pelvis? If you aim right at the point of the nose, you've got a 3" or less margin of error. If you think you can make the shot, take it, cause it's as close to a guaranteed stop as you get with a handgun. OTOH, if he's in motion, the pelvic region is probably the most stable target on his body. And, if you aim right below the belt buckle you again have, like with COM, a good 6" radius of 'high-value' targets.

Anyhow, my feeling is that if, for whatever reason, two major caliber JHP's didn't do the job COM, then it's time for plan B. If you think you can make the head shot, that's obviously going to be most effective, but the pelvic area can be an alternative. It's always good to have options.

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
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