Breaking in a new rifle or die trying

[wingman]

Normally I shoot perhaps 10-20 rounds on a new rifle clean check for fouling then use JB polishing compound and bore bright,my rifles will shoot less then 1 moa if not they are gone. I've seen some Savage rifles with rough bore but they smooth up in time, I've known guys using the fire lapping method and they tell me it works great most I spoke with use the less abrasive bullets in the kit at first then clean shoot additional groups to see if there is improvement before continuing on to the more abrasive loads. If I had an extremely bad barrel I would use it.

 

[PawPaw]

Try a couple of boxes of Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. That's the standard for off-the-shelf ammo and should shoot just fine in your rifle. There are several handloads that seem to mimic that load. Might I suggest that you try 43.0 grains of Reloder 15 under a 168 Sierra Matchking. Other guys find a similar load of Varget gives them stellar accuracy from their .308s.

Just purchased a Savage Model 16 Weather Warrior in .308. Nice rifle. Feels good. Good trigger and the safety works naturally. I was anxious to savor some of that heavily advertised Savage accuracy.

That's a nice rifle, but it's a hunting rifle. It may take some tweaking with the ammo to get match-rifle accuracy from it. I've got several Savage rifles and I'm happy with all of them, but long strings make the groups open up with those thin sporter barrels. I'm happy with one-inch accuracy from my hunting rifles, but some folks expect much tighter accuracy.

My son has a Savage 111 FV in 7mm Rem Mag. That rifle didn't really start to shoot until he had 200 rounds down the tube. Now it's wonderfully accurate, making bug-hole groups at 100 yards. Another son has a Model 10 FLP in .308 Win that has about 200 rounds down the tube and it's turning in some eye-popping groups.

Sometimes it just takes rounds down the bore to smooth out a factory barrel.

 

[rtpzwms]

I have been shooting for over 40 years, and have never run across a barrel that fouls like this one.

Then WHY are you trying to fix it on a brand new rifle. Call the mfg and get it looked at and see what they will do for you. You PAID for that as part of the purchase. You're not looking for anything out of the ordinary. Just get an RMA and send it back and let them take a look and give them a chance to make you a happy camper!

 

[5RWill]

Break-in = burnishing, which could help a rough barrel.

However, if I bought a rifle NIB that did exceptional fouling, I'd paint it yellow and send it back. I ain't runnin' no lemonade stand.

Agreed

The link above specifically talks about the break in and the a barrel that has been chambered with a dull reamer that has left burrs on the rifling.

Though again i agree if it's that problematic send that SOB back and let them fix it, though I would try some better ammo as recommended above, and if that doesn't work send it back.

 

[Boncrayon]

You really do not "have to" break in a barrell, as it has been tested with a factory round. You "should" clean the factory oil coating with some solvent before firing the first time to find its cleaned accuracy. A barrell should not have "gunk" in it but remain clean and dry with proper cleaning and storage away from moisture.

The biggest challenges to a firearm is in what conditions it has encountered and the human element of body oil and sweat. A Rem Oil Cloth is it's best ally after the usage at the range or hunt.

Savage is making some great .22's and others for the joy and fun of the shooters young and old. The competition of manufacturers is great, and the sportsman is gaining the expertise. Make sure you do not buy a cheap sold "relics" that have been run through multi-generations unkept. You will find brand new Ruger 10/22's and Marlin model 60's at great prices off the shelves. Breaking-in an old rifle is like breaking in old tires. Breaking in new tires are easy.

 

[twins]

I've read the Thompson Center (Venture) manual, nothing in it about break-in of the barrel.

I also read the Marlin (XL7) manual, nothing in it about break-in of the barrel.

I've read the Mossberg (4x4) manual, nothing in it about break-in of the barrel.

I just read the Remington (700) manual, nothing in it about break-in of the barrel.

I don't own a Savage, so not sure about its manual. Anyone with a Savage, can you browse your manual to see if there's a break-in of barrel section?

Any Ruger American owner, can you check your manual?
Any Weatherby Vanguard owner, can you check your manual?

I guess following manufacturer's instruction is the best advice.

 

[Doyle]

You guys keep going back and forth about breaking in.

This guys problem is NOT A BREAKIN problem. It's a rough bore problem. Totally different problem - totally different solution. I agree with two previous posters. Send it back to Savage.

 

[5RWill]

You guys keep going back and forth about breaking in.

This guys problem is NOT A BREAKIN problem. It's a rough bore problem. Totally different problem - totally different solution. I agree with two previous posters. Send it back to Savage.

This is true. The Title though was a bit misleading till he clarified. Like you said though send it back to savage, they'll fix it, and get rid of the headache all together.

 

[Tim R]

My question is: have any of you used Tubbs polishing kit? Does it work?
What I am doing now is no longer fun. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I agree barrel break in is no fun doing it the way you are. I broke in my last Krieger barrel according to their break in instruction’s. This barrel makes no, nada copper period. Worked well and did not take many rounds. Tubbs “final Finish in my mind is too harsh on the barrel IMHO. I shortened the life of a barrel by using JB bore paste which is not as gritty as the Tubbs deal. In another Remington 308 LTR, was broke in using the method you are. The Rifle only started to perform after round 364.

It sounds to me like you need to contact your rifle maker and and proceed from there.

 

[Hardbawl]

Tried a series of David Tubb's sandpaper bullets. This is 5 groups of 10 bullets with progressivly smoother grit coatings. Accuracy has improved from 2.5-3" to 1-1.5" depending on load. Copper deposits have stopped showing up. Three or four solvent patches clean the rifle.

I am confident that future load development will get me in the half minute range.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

 

[603Country]

My most recent rifle purchase didn't seem to settle down till I had over 100 rounds through it. Coulda been 200 rounds, since I wasn't counting. And at the time I thought the barrel was a bit rough. Seems smoother now when I clean it and it shoots great with several loads and bullet weights. I do think that a contributing factor to the early poor grouping was the rather poor synthetic stock that it came with. Once I replaced it with an upgrade, things got much better very rapidly. So what I'm saying is that your grouping problem might not be all due to a rough barrel. The barrel may smooth out when it's seasoned a bit, but if it's still shooting poorly after a few hundred rounds through it, the problem could be other than the barrel.

 

[JerryM]

I have never "broken in" a rifle barrel. Maybe the bench rest shooters do, but I do not know.
Otherwise spend your time getting used to the rifle, shooting it, and finding the loads that it prefers.

Breaking in, as such, is a waste of time and money.

Jerry

 

[Hardbawl]

Jerry:
I hear you. Would be nice if it were so simple. I too would just like to shoot a couple of hundred rounds and let things settle in. BUT, it is not that simple.

Reality is: come home from work, load several groups of three to shoot, set up a target on the 100 yard range, fire three groups of three, and then spend two hours scrubbing the copper out of the barrel. That is not fun. Nor is it something that I want to do for "several hundred rounds." At the rate I was going it would take me several years to find a good load.

I figured that I got the barrel from Savage that was the last one before they changed the button on their rifling machine. I felt that the barrel met their very minumum spec to go out the door. To be quite honest, I was preparing myself to make a trip over to Bobby Harts and have him put a new barrel on it, because the rifle has that special feel to it.

The Dave Tubbs sandpaper bullets were a last ditch effort to avoid the time and cost of installing a new barrel. Sure, I knew that they would eat up some of the usefull life of the barrel. But, a 308 has a pretty long life anyway. Yes, they cost $50, but that was cheaper than spending 50 hours pushing patches.

Spending hours and hours pushing patches down a barrel is a sport for someone else. After the Tubbs treatment, my rifle comes clean with 4 patches and shoots a whole lot better. Now, I can START load development.

Again thanks for your help.

 

[603Country]

It appears that you are happy with the Tubbs solution, and that's great. As for the 2 hours you spend (or spent) scrubbing out copper, you really do need a bottle of Boretech Eliminator. That stuff will take out the copper fairly quickly, and I really do think it'll take out the copper that you thought you took out last time you cleaned with something else. It's certainly the best copper remover I've found so far, and I've used a lot of the top name brands.

 

[Nathan]

while bench rest people may find value in breaking in a new barrel

No, generally, I think they feel it is a waste of round count. You only get a couple of 1000 before it is time to change barrels!

 

[eldorendo]

To the OP: Do a search for "Gale McMillan". Gale's opinion was that barrel break-in was idiotic, and one of Gale's barrels holds a world's record in benchrest competition.

Also, the use of the brass brushes was giving you the illusion that you weren't cleaning the copper out of your bore. The copper-cleaner was reacing with the copper in the brass, leaving the blue-green residue. You didn't need the brass brush.

To the question about tool marks: The "shoot one then clean" silliness won't do anything positive for tool marks.

 

[Panfisher]

I have done the whole break in thing before, back when it was the "rage", and would rather get a part time job to pay someone else to do it than go through it again. I also had a Rem 700 with a very rough bore, sent it back to Remington, they sent it back and said nothing wrong with it. Finally ended up polishing the bore with LBT compound, result was a very accurate rifle, easy to clean, that I still had no good memories of so I sold it.

LBT or Tubbs will do it, if you have already run the Tubbs through it, you can do some final polishing with the LBT compound even by hand if you have the time and patience. I have no doubt that the groups will shrink with additional polishing of a very rough bore and some load development. I still have part of a bottle of LBT compound that I use occasionally on a taurus .22 pistol that fouls at the throat so bad it will send bullets sideways all over the paper, a couples cylinders worth and a good cleaning and back to normal.

 

[Hardbawl]

"To the OP: Do a search for "Gale McMillan". Gale's opinion was that barrel break-in was idiotic, and one of Gale's barrels holds a world's record in benchrest competition.

Also, the use of the brass brushes was giving you the illusion that you weren't cleaning the copper out of your bore. The copper-cleaner was reacing with the copper in the brass, leaving the blue-green residue. You didn't need the brass brush.

To the question about tool marks: The "shoot one then clean" silliness won't do anything positive for tool marks."

What Gale McMillian says about McMillian barrels must be true for Savage barrels too. I guess I am just an "idiot" for trying to deal with a serious problem that really did exist. Your friendliness overwelms me.

Eldor if you have a problem, I will do my best to understand and be helpful.

 

[bull bob]

I usually try to stay out of these, but I guess I just gotta put in my 2 cents. The break in period, if you want to call it that or not, is merely ironing out the machining marks with fired bullets. The cleaning part is just to insure you don't just coat the inside of a "rough" bore with copper before the barrel smooths out enough. Some are rougher than others. Some need to be cleaned every round until smoothed out. Some may do ok at 5 rounds. Some may be ok at a box at a time. But over time the bore does smooth out and the rifle "should" gradually shoot a little better with a load it likes. The break ins that everyone refers to are just recommendations from anyone with an opinion on the subject. To each their own.

As the OP found out, his bore was unusually rough. Smoothing out the inside with the Tubbs system worked, or at least helped. I usually clean a new rifle, then try to polish up the insides with a little JB Bore Paste before shooting. And again if it seems to collect fouling much. That may be your next step Hardbawl. Good luck.

 

[Old Grump]

My question is: have any of you used Tubbs polishing kit? Does it work?
What I am doing now is no longer fun. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Haven't used it and no need to, most of my guns aren't match rifles and those that are don't need it and are not being shot in competition anymore. I think a previous poster was right and you got a barrel that was cut with a worn tool and you need to send the barrel back at least and get one that works right. I have never had a problem out of the box with a Savage, never ever, so you got yourself a bum barrel. It happens sometimes to every manufacturer. Let us know how their customer service is. You should not have to try and fix their problem.