Brass versus steel

Doc Hoy said:
The pattern of the imprint
.....on a recoil shield is very interesting to me. It is incontrovertable evidence of at least some of the forces applied to a revolver both during loading and during discharge.
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Doc, normally the hand well force the cylinder forward when cocked plus the impact of the hammer driving the cylinder forward when fired. This gives you a certain amount of end play and the combustion pressures force the cylinder back in to the recoil shield. The more end play the faster you well see this imprint of the ratchet in the recoil shield develop. The pressure from the loading lever probably does not exceed 100-150 psi at the recoil shield.


Ideal Tool said:
NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material.
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No sir.
Hi-Standard "Guns of the Confederacy" comes to mind. Three or four different models produced in the 70's.
 
MCB

I have to disagree a little on the loading pressure.

The mechanical advantage of the loading lever depending upon which pistol you are considering is somewhere around 8 or 9. With the force applied to the loading lever this means that the actual force pulling on the arbor and therefore pushing the cylinder into the recoil shield could exceed 300 pounds.

I am figuring 30 to 40 pounds of force on the loading lever which in my opinion is realistic.
 
I really don't think I put out 40 lbs of force to load any of mine but even so that's not enough to imprint a recoil shield no matter how many thousands of rounds you load.
 
Don't want to be hard on new folks wanting to get into the BP revolvers. As for the brass frame revolvers. Wonder how many of us on this thread that has six or more BP revolvers don't have one brass frame in the group. As for me I only have eight BP revolvers. One of them is a brass frame Colt revolver. I can't call it a Navy cause it is in .44 cal, and people make fun of it cause it's 44 instead of .36 cal it's still one of the most fun shooters with 15 to 20grs of powder, and hits right where you point it. :) Now I've read some post where people are putting way to much powder in the brass frames really don't think it's a good idea. Just for the new people that come along I don't mind repeating the same thread a couple thousand more times :confused: At the same time you fellows are the reason I keep coming back :) I've gotten more help from you all than anybody in any shop around here. I do like buying the colt brass frames to get the barrels, cylinders, grips, wedges, as well as all the stuff inside the frame instead of buying all that stuff one thing at a time. What do you think about that idea. It don't work out to do that with the Remingtions cause you can't get the barrels out. Have a great day everybody. :cool:
 
Primers and Powder!

Is anyone looking for primers and powder, I have 40 55 Gallon Barrells full of bismuth shells! 1 and a 1/4 the primers are all still good , and the powder as well, each barrell has about 5000 shells in them! The tops have been cut off and the loads removed! But like i said the primers are still usable! and the powder as well, and then you can sell the brass for scrap! Last i hurd there paying around 210 a pound for brass! I just dont have the time to mess with them! Thanks!
 
Can't get the barrel out of a Remington?

I have only run into one Remington I could not get the barrel out of. There are several that I own which I have not tried taking apart but of the many I have attempted to remove, only one, a steel frame ASP was unremovable. I do not use heat on the frame to remove a Remington barrel.
 
The Doc said:
MCB
I have to disagree a little on the loading pressure.

The mechanical advantage of the loading lever depending upon which pistol you are considering is somewhere around 8 or 9. With the force applied to the loading lever this means that the actual force pulling on the arbor and therefore pushing the cylinder into the recoil shield could exceed 300 pounds.

I am figuring 30 to 40 pounds of force on the loading lever which in my opinion is realistic.
__________________
Doc
Click to expand...

OK, that got me curious. I took a Remington cylinder out to the shop and put it in my valve spring tester and pressed in a few RB's. 60-80lbs pressure to shave the ball, of course ball diameter to chamber diameter well change this number. I had a .004 press fit on the test mule.

Not trying to be a smart arse Doc, I have spent about twenty years worth of weekends testing on-head valve spring pressures between runs at the race track. The tool you use is much like a loading lever. You get to the point of having a calibrate arm and you don't even look at the gauge.
 
MCB

It is absolutely true what you say. I have no way of knowing how much force I am exerting with my hand on the loading lever.

Neither do I find it surprising that with some alloys and some ball sizes the loading prssure can be quite low. Heck with my .31 Remington and a .315 mold I require almost no pressure at all. (I know I have the wrong size mold and I don't shoot it with these balls.)

I respect your words as a long time shooter who applies careful and circumspect logic to everything you do. In addition you have a good bit more mechanical experience than I do which I both admire and respect.

But on my newest dragoon with a .454 ball and the alloy I am using which I think is at least 95%, I can't get the ball to enter the chamber no mater how much force I use on the lever with my hand. I might be using the wrong size ball or the wrong alloy or the chamfer on the chambers may have been left out, but the fact remains that if I apply X amount of force on the lever in a radial vector which is tangent to the arch of the end of the lever, I am applying about X times 8 or 9 (perhaps even higher on the Walker with it's longer lever) on the plunger.

Applying a lot of force to the loading lever is apparently not all that rare since I have read (or at least I think I remember having read) that some folks use a cheater tube on the end of the lever to start the bullets.

I am one who believes that some of the loose arbors in brass frame Colts are due as much to loading as to shooting the pistols. This is what prompted me to move to a press which I declared I would never do.

BTW....Would never take you as a smart arse nor do I dispute what you are saying. Nor do I get offended which, I hope is your case as well.
 
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