Brass tumbling question

Nevertheless, that is what I (ground walnut) and thousands of others have been using in their tumblers for years. I have never cared about polishing, just cleaning the carbon off after firing and it (walnut) works. I am sad to hear it no longer works.
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Like I said, arguing against common sense and not what I wrote at all...

I wrote you would be better off using a cleaner to clean & a polishing media to polish...
If you want to use sandpaper to chew through a board instead of using a saw, it's your time to waste (and keep wasting)....

If you want to use a chisel for a screwdriver, that's fine with me!
I find chisels are expensive and don't do the job nearly as well as the intended tool for the job...

I started off like everyone else, media in a tumbler, brass directly from range into tumbler, then went and used solvent to clean the exact same sticky crud out of the firearm...
One day it dawned on me I was using a polishing cloth to clean crud off the brass...
Pretty backwards when you think about it rationally!

You don't clean crud & oil off the bottom of the engine with your waxing/polishing cloth...
You don't clean the chamber with your oiling cloth...
You don't take the food off the dishes with a drying dish towel...

BUT... If you believe the sales propaganda, it's actually perfered to take the grease/grime off your cases with a polishing compound!
THEY DO SELL ($$$) the replacement tumblers & polishing media!!!
No profit in telling you to use $0.002 worth of soap & water in a free resealable container,
That's something you have to learn (or not learn) from someone that questions the sales propaganda...
 
Like Jeephammer said, plain old soap and water works before tumbling in walnut. I have tried a lot of methods over the years bu when it comes down to cleaning cases , soap and water can't be beat for it's simplicity and effectiveness.

When I first started reloading rifle and pistol I used a DIY rotary with walnut shells chucked up in a lathe. When I sold my lathe I used to boil my cases in soap and water and a touch of lemon juice. It worked great to clean but the cases looked dull afterwards. I still use that method for range pickup pistol brass before tumbling just to get the dirt off.

A few months back I bought a Frankford rotary and tried the stainless pins method but even using the magnets and other methods decided it was too much of a pain in the butt separating the pins so I went back to dry tumbling using walnut in the Frankford.

I tried decapping and soaking before dry tumbling but found little improvement so now I just dry tumble the rifle and wash any range pickup .223 or pistol
 
dahermit said:
The dust in the walnut tumbling media does not come from leaving the lid off. The dust is walnut media breaking down into dust. The dryer sheets collects the dust...or when it starts getting dusty, just replace it with new.
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The lid does not eliminate the dust, it just contains it within the bowl. After the unit is shut off and the solid lid is remove, some dust may escape, but far less than if the tumbler had a slotted lid, like my Lyman...
 
Wow! Tumbling brass is probably the most talked about, most "argued" over part of reloading, but by far the least important...
 
Mikld, I disagree.

The one thing that reloaders all have in common is some how cleaning the brass...
Tumble it dry, tumble it wet, tumble it with pins, vibrate it wet, dry or with/without pins, and probably some crap I haven't tried yet....

The point is, everyone has to clean at some point (unless you don't care about anything but 'bang', including what crud does to the firearm), So it's the one thing we have that's universal...

Cleaned, polished or not, basic cleaning is universal...
 
No profit in telling you to use $0.002 worth of soap & water in a free resealable container,
That's something you have to learn (or not learn) from someone that questions the sales propaganda...
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I learned long ago that if I used soap and water to clean my cases, I had to wait for them to dry out before I could use them. Using crushed walnut shells and a vibrating tumbler to clean my cases, they get clean passively and I can reload them right from the tumbler without any concern for water lurking inside somewhere. It is not so much as buying into sales propaganda, it is what has worked and continues to work for me despite objections to the contrary, including those of oranges and apples. One can dance with the meaning of "cleaner" vs. "polisher", but the ground walnut starts out tan and becomes black over a period of time as the carbon is transferred from the cases to the media. Therefore, a "cleaner".
I am willing to admit that the cleanest cases I have ever seen, are those that have been wet cleaned with stainless steel pins, soap and water (including inside, and the primer pockets), however, those cases must be allowed to dry before being used and I shoot, reload everyday in the Summer...so soap and water may be "best" (especially on a commercial basis), but it has a drawback that I do not wish to contend with.
 
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Waaay too much imphasis is placed on tumbling brass. I reloaded for 12 years before I got a tumbler and nope, I ruined no dies, and yes, I could spot ant defects. I also made some very accutate ammo, but I started reloamding pre-web anb shiny, virgin looking brass was not a "necessity", and every reloader I know judges their ammmo by the tesults of their groups rather than ammo "looks"...

Remember the saying "All show and no go"? Some of the best shooters I knew/saw used "brown" reloads...
 
Waaay too much emphasis is placed on tumbling brass. I reloaded for 12 years before I got a tumbler and nope, I ruined no dies, and yes, I could spot ant defects.
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Likely true, but I doubt that there are many shooters who shoot a lot, and have a tumbler are going to stop using it. It becomes part of the routine. In the "olden days" before carbide dies, I used that sticky RCBS stuff on a pad. After sizing (in a single stage), I would use handwarmer fuel to remove that sticky lubricant. However, I would never go back to it or to a single stage press due to my volume of handgun shooting. Those cases would oxidize to brown, but they were clean.
 
I used to get that too but I attributed my issue with using Nu-Finish polishing compound in the media. I always ran the tumbler for 10-12 minutes after adding about a capful thinned with paint thinner. Before adding brass I always ran my fingers through the media looking for clumps but would never find any, but sure enough I'd be left with media stuck to the inside of cases afterwards. I put up with it back when I only reloaded straight walled handgun cases and could wipe them out easily but once I started reloading rifle cartridges I wasn't willing to take the chance with a bunch of media taking up case volume so I bought the frankford wet tumbler and haven't looked back!

Yeah I could have just stopped adding the polishing compound and probably solved the issue but I was also looking for an excuse to upgrade to wet tumbling!


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JeepHammer wrote:
And now, rebuttal by guys arguing AGAINST common sense because they don't do it that way.... In 3, 2, 1...
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Just by trial and error, I worked out the process of washing (not tumbling) brass in a detergent and weak acid solution, air drying it and then lubricating it, sizing it and then tumbling the lubricant off in walnut media. Yes, I know the lubricant plugs up the media, but since I'm using it primarily to remove the lubricant, not polish the brass, the media lasts plenty long enough for me. As an incidental benefit, the media does make the brass shinier than when it started.
 
I am not advocating the removal of tumbling from anyone's reloading process, I'm just saying, as I did in my original post, it isn't as important as is you read in forums. How many posts are seen posted by new reloaders that have been convinced they cannot reload without tumbling using an exacting formula of media and additives? Many new folks have included a tumbler in their "start-up" set, sometimes before they even acquire dies, and it just adds a bit of extra, unnecessary stuff to the process.

I am not anti-tumbling/polishing, just saying it isn't the big deal as many seem to think reloading is not possible without a pristine (virgin looking, shiny inside and out including primer pockets) case. It is just one more burden on new reloaders that just isn't that important, but a much overdone topic on all the forums I frequent. I am a K.I.S.S advocate for new reloaders

Just before I started reloading I hung out at a police range, watching and occasionally shooting my 38. One time I noticed two shooters that shot a lot (1911s). I moved closer and noticed their targets. Each target had one hole, approx 3" in diameter (@50') from a few magazines full. I also noted that the ammo in their trays were brown, not shiny brass. They noticed me and struck up a conversation and explained they were reloaders. Apparently they were more concerned with the results on target than who was impressed by the appearance of their ammo...

Jes an old guys .02...:rolleyes:
 
Brando1992 said:
Thanks for the input! This is the media I am using, I used 1 or 2 new dryer sheets to tumble the media.
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FWIW, that is the exact same media that I use with no problems. I cut a couple of USED dryer sheets into 1-1/2" strips for each batch of brass. I add Flitz tumbling additive or NuFinish to the media every other batch of brass to add a little slickness for resizing. I let the tumbler run 15 minutes or so to distribute the polish and bust up any clumps before I add brass. ymmv
 
I bought a bag of crushed walnut hulls kitty litter. Did one or two batches of rifle cases. Spent hours cleaning the packed dust out of the cases. Might have been the "wrong kind" of crushed hulls. Whatever. The rest of that bag of litter went straight into the trash. Been using corn cob media and used dryer sheets since then. The media works good, is cheap, lasts, and best of all, it is really easy to separate the brass from the media. If it works it works. If it doesn't work, get something that does.
 
Again, common sense...

If you don't want to clean brass, then process it dirty, I don't care.

If you want to dry or wet clean, again, I don't care.

The subject was CLEANING, not how filthy you can leave your brass!

1. A few drops of soap, some water in a free container works just fine to get the goo off.
Use a hard water additive, and roll it around for 20 minutes instead of 5 and it will come out suprisingly clean, and you didn't have to fork over $100 of your favorite dollars for the vibrator & 'Super Duper' dry media or expensive wet tumbler...

Then point was made (common sense saves money) a free can beats a $200 wet tumbler sold specifically for cleaning brass, and *IF* you already have a dry media vibrator, this save rattling time like crazy!
Plugged up media takes forever to work, wet cleaning keeps your media from plugging up.
(Common sense)

2. If you want even cleaner brass, shake off the excess water and throw it in the dry media for a while.
The rumors of the small amount of water plugging up the media are lies, I do it all the time, and you tube is full of people that do the same.
Leave the lid off the dry media container if you think it's getting too damp.
(Common sense)

I don't know where that BS came from, but it's persistent!
Probably someone that had ONLY dust left and never bothered to shake the cases off...

3. If the brass is 'Clean' Enough', then do what 'hdwhit' suggested, go ahead and process your brass and dry rattle later after processing to get case lube off.

I grab previously cleaned cases and load ammo.
You DO NOT have to lube processed cases to load ammo!
Processing means already sized, no need for sizing lube when you aren't sizing.
(Common sense)

4. I RARELY load immediately.
I usually process brass in bulk, then store.
It's had all the time in the world to dry by the time I get to it, even if it wasn't dry media rattled before I processed, rather dry media rattled after processing to get lube off.

I might think twice about washing and NOT dry media rattling if I were going stright to loading.

I'm old school, I don't need every case loaded RIGHT NOW!
I perfer to load as I have a need, leave the powder & primers dry & safe until I need to put ammo on the shelf.
Some guys *THINK* they need 50,000 loaded rounds at all times, I don't.
With 500 to 5,000 loaded rounds on the shelf at any given time, I can wait until bullets, powder & primers go on sale, or you get free shipping or something.
(Common sense)

I'm not worried about zombie hoards, End of the world or any of that crap.
I simply want enough on hand in case friends/family show up and want to shoot.

NOT being stuck with every case loaded, when I want to try a new bullet or whatever, there are always cases prepped & ready to load.
Nothing like being able to crank out hollow points when everything else is FMJ, or the occasional tracer or soft point...
 
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First of all, Jeephammer I always enjoy your posts and tend to learn a lot from them. I've been loading for a little over 30 years and yet can still learn a lot. The idea of just washing first with a little dawn sounds good and I'm going to give it a try on my next round. I've tried a lot of different methods and products for tumbling brass and have settled on a fairly basic process. On pistol brass I just deprime and then tumble for 2 hours in walnut with 1/4 of a paper towel cut into 1/2"x3" strips and a capful of Nushine every other load. I think if I add the cleaning with Dawn before this it will help even more. I'm going to just clean, then rough dry by rolling in a towel, add brass and tumble for a while then add the Nushine and paper towels. I've always felt the purpose of using a dryer sheet or paper towel was to help remove the crud and keep dust down. I know whenever I've removed the towel/dryer sheet they are pretty dirty. Personally, I'm not overly concerned that my brass is super shiny, I just want it clean and functional, and reasonably shiny.
 
If it already hasn't been stated, quality control of particle size and dust in lizard bedding and tumbling media is different. I have used the pet store stuff with mixed results. First big bag I bought worked awesome! Second bag I bought was too dusty, same problem OP is having. I tumbled a couple hundred 9mm cases with the second bag and with out inspecting my work dumped it into my storage container of 2000 or so. within the first fifty rounds of sizing I got a stuck case in my die. first one ever, then in the next 10 another stuck case. I put the spotlight on my brass container and saw all the dust. tried to blow it out of the container with air compressor to no avail. I decided to pitch the lizard bedding and buy some hornady corncob haven't looked back. I use the rouge impregnated walnut for initial cleaning / polishing, then lube and size(for rifle cases). Then I tumble again with corncob to remove the lube and finish polish the brass before reloading. For pistol cases I just tumble in corncob.
 
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'Crushed' & 'Ground' walnut shells makes a difference.
I was using Crushed shells for metal polish (not reloading, a shop production project) and it worked OK, about what you would expect.

Wasn't paying attention and order 'Walnut Shell's media, and it was pretty useless.
Dusty, really small more rounded grains, and took 3 or 4 times as long to work.
Got to looking at the boxes, one said 'Crushed', the other said 'Ground'.
Makes sense that grinding would make more dust, but the difference in how they worked was obvious.

I tried screen strainers to clear dust, they work OK,
The cheapest way to get rid of dust is pour bucket to bucket (outside or your wife will kill you!) And let the dust drift off,

I also wash walnut shell media, which elminates 100% of dust, but requires drying media afterwards.
Washing is a pain in the butt, but the results are good.

The all time best results was with plastic polishing media.
It's plastic balls with abrasive cast into the plastic, so as plastic wears new abrasive is exposed.
Washes really well and lasts a LONG time,
Limit rattle time because it does have an abrasive.

Being plastic, you can hose it off without issues, and it doesn't clump when it dries.

I tried ceramic balls that are often used to clean & deburr metal production parts.
Won't do that again!
Really hard on the brass, brass plugged up the ceramic really quickly and was really hard to get out .
Took a Corrosive to remove brass from ceramic.

I still find soap & water the cheapest & easiest all the way around.
Throw a 5 gallon bucket of brass in the mixer, a shot of detergent & a shot of Lemi-Shine, in 20 minutes 8,000+ cases are ready to dry and process.

Not that everyone does 8,000 at a time, but you can scale for your application.

I dump cases in separator, roll water & pins out when I use steel pins, and throw damp (not soaking wet cases full of water) cases directly in dry media.
Screening media keeps most fine dust out (it's the dust that clumps), and the little bit of moisture the cases carry in works as dust control in the dry media.

Dry media dries the cases out bone dry, and when they come out and hit the separator the second time they are bright, shiny, slick & ready for processing.

Like the guy said before, if you are going to process right now, skip the dry media...
Wet cases get the excess water shaken off, clean brass gets processed, THEN into dry media to get case lube off and brighten them up.

You don't have to lube a second time when you load, so once through each is enough.

Guys that process and load at the same time will have to adjust to suit what they are doing...
I can't ever remember going directly from range to reloaded rounds directly, but I'm sure I have at some point,
Usually when I get range brass I clean it quickly, then process or store for future processing....
Choosing to load at a future time.

My cleaning & processing are separate functions now, probably because nothing has the potential to go 'BOOM!' when cleaning processing,
I devote full attention when I'm loading, cleaning & processing are distractions.
When you are cleaning, you can drink beer & watch cartoons! I like beer & cartoons! ;)

Watching the machine, loading primers, filling powder bin, feeding bullets, doing inspections of loaded rounds, that's a full time job and I don't multitask very well...
No beer & cartoons :( not even a cup of coffee...

I just think the entire idea of ONLY one leaning process is a silly & counter productive.
I'm not big on using a banana to drive a nail, the right tool for the job, get a hammer!
Goo comes off easily and quickly with detergent, so I use detergent.
I have a bucket with clean walnut for taking case lube off, a second with polishing compound added to the media when I want 'Like New' brass, which actually isn't very often, but the buckets are cheap, store easily and the dry media doesn't get choked with the goo.

The right tools for the respective jobs.
If a guy wants to rattle qoo of the cases (hours on end) then that's his choice, no sweat off my brow.
Good luck with the 10th batch of goo covered cases in that media, because it's going to take 24 hours to polish instead of 1 to 4 hours...
Been there, done that, found a better way...

I started with pound coffee cans, now I use a cement mixer, and I'd do bigger batches if I had a better way to move cases, steel pins, water, dry media around.
About 5 gallons is all you want to lift repeatedly, take my word for it!
50 or 60 pounds of steel pins mixed in with 5 gallons of brass is a GRUNT to get chest high into the mixer!

It's up to each one to decide, 100 9mm brass is an entirely different issue than 100,000 .223 cases, so process will change!
 
I will say that dryer sheets are bad. Cosmetic sponges or a few natural sea sponge pieces collect filth and dust like a magnet. Gently shake off media. Tap the filth out of the sponges, wash and dry them, start over.

When my brass is dirty, I dump it into a heavyh cloth bag and run it through the washer with a load of jeans.
 
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Because in my experience they do little to no good in keeping brass clean. They do little to no good at removing dust. In my experience, all they do is wrap around the center post and interfere with the flow of materials. Adding whatever treatments like cleaners or polish doesn't depend on the sheets, and in fact, as the cleaners and dirt dust off, it probably
Becomes more trouble than it's worth. Does it make brass pretty? Sure.

My process is to wash the stuff. Dry it at low heat on my plate warmer. Use ordinary brass cleaner I get from midway.

I keep a two inch wide natural sea sponge in the media as the vibrator runs. The sponge is slightly sticky, dust and dirt cling to it like glue, media drops off. A light shake once every few runs drops off media, a good whomp tosses of volumes of dust, hand washing makes it as good as new. Hundreds, up to maybe a thousand rounds can be run between cleaning the thing, and when you sort, there will be little to no dust in your pan.

It does tend to clean the media as well, polishing off some of the treatment if you use any. You may need to treat it a bit more often.

Some people, lots of them can't see why clean and shiny brass matter, I don't care about that sort of negativity. I drink my beer from a glass, I have Waterford wine glasses, and my scotch goes into sparkling, heavy glasses. What does it matter if I clean my brass or like to see my glasses sparkle?

If you try those sponges, either a largish one or three that are about the size of ping pong balls, and you do it right, those sponges will be filthy gray when you are through, but your brass and media will be clean and dust free.

Never give up trying to find something better, sometimes the old standard stuff can be improved on. My life is a whole lot better since aspirin was replaced by Aleve. Last week a splinter of cartilage in my shoulder struck a nerve and pretty nearly paralyzed my right arm. Steroids and muscle relaxers worked wonders, the old reliable stuff wouldn't have touched it.

That was the most intense pain I've felt since I had my head cut open, and the next day I was functioning again.
 
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