Brand new guy here but long time milsurp collector

So, here is the obvious issues, wrong scope, wrong sling but a really cool 1914 dated web sling. Needs a 1907 sling. I have the bayonet and cleaning kit stored in the butt of the rifle. No scabbard. Upper wrist area where the scope serial number would be is just the letter H. Seems odd but I have see a few others with no marked serial numbers in that area. The star cartouche on the lower wrist I think signifies a arsenal rebuild at some point. The scope mount bracket serial number is off from the gun but was also told and read that these could be swapped during rebuild and not renumbered. All and all, just a very neat, tight, and clean gun.
 
right side

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The star with the W inside it is the Weedon Depot repair mark - at some point the stock, if original to the rifle, went through the Weedon system in England. I have rifles that also bear the Weedon mark.

If the stock is original to the rifle you should have an S56 stamp on the underside of the butt stock. You should also have scope serial numbers stamped on the topside of the butt stock nearest the wrist. If you remove the butt stock, you should also see a second set of numbers on the top of the socket itself, these numbers are the serial numbers for the rifle.

So the serial numbers on your receiver match the serial numbers on the stock pictured, or not?

Tiki.
 
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Yep, the stock and the receiver match. Also good to know that I can find a scope serial number in other places but I suppose the odds of finding the matching scope is a billion to one.
 
No patterns perse', somebody posted something up in one of the Enfield forums ages ago but I have no idea where it was now. It was the dimensions for the No4 transit box. A bloke in my neck of the woods makes replica's that look spot on, but I like having an original and that is what I have.

Another question ... does your butt stock bear the S51 stamp on the heel? There are reasons to ask this because serial numbers can be faked and stamped onto rifle stocks but there are some stamps that have a special font, that can't be duplicated unless you have those armorers stamps. The S51 stamp has the S in sans serif ... if you don't have this stamp then it is likely your stock isn't legit.

To clarify before ... the scope number will be on the top of the butt stock near the wrist, the rifle serial number should be on the top of the butt stock socket when removed. So you can check if this stock is original or not by removing the butt stock and checking the socket is stamped with the rifles serial number. Only No4T's are like this, so if there is nothing there, you don't have an original No4T stock. Odds of finding the matching scope, remote.

EDIT - Looking at the image of the butt stock you posted, I can't see the important S51 stamp at all. Can you post a clearly picture showing the middle section of the butt stock underside + heel?

Tiki.
 
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Nothing in the metal of the butt socket and nothing on the wood area that fits up into the socket. The heel wood has some damage just before the buttplate but I can tell there was a stamp there prior to the damage. The gun seems legit to me but I am sure it has been through refurb at some point. I am beginning to think it might be a rifle that was never paired with a scope originally. Thanks for the help Tiki!
 
If you have nothing on the socket area then that butt stock isn't legit, flat out. All No4T rifles that went through Holland & Holland, whether they passed muster or not, would have had the stocks serial numbered in those specific locations, they would still be clear and visible to this day. If you don't have those markings, there is no way that stock is original to the rifle.

Can you post detailed pics of the top of the butt stock near the receiver, and the socket itself when removed? At best the butt stock may be a replacement, even if the fore-end is original. Also, I can see clearly that the heel does not bear the S51 mark where it should be so, it really is no dice on the butt.

Tiki.
 
that crazy bloke down under said:
I asked if the Serial number started with a 3 ... the letter prefix is not a number and is largely irrelevant to identifying BSA No4T's. It is the first number of the series that is key to their identity, that being more often than not, the number 3.

A serial number can have a letter prefix, but the letter prefix is not a number, it is merely part of the serial series. You will note also the Serial numbers on my No8 case match the correct number format for a No4T; ie, B33279. This was the tenor of my question ...
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Come on Tiki, you know the 'serial number' includes 'any' perfix or suffix, but I did know what you were getting at.

If the stock is original to the rifle you should have an S56 stamp on the underside of the butt stock.
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Typo? It well be marked S51 under the comb (bottom)



mtbikerwvu said:
Nothing in the metal of the butt socket and nothing on the wood area that fits up into the socket.
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Butt stock has been replaced at one time, not unheard of.
There's a guy in BC, Canada that builds transit chests and sells them on evil bay and at http://www.milsurps.com. Evil bay has original No32's often, study to pic's well, there are fakes. Expect to pay up to $1500 and another 4-600 to have it rebuilt.


mtbikerwvu said:
The gun seems legit to me but I am sure it has been through refurb at some point. I am beginning to think it might be a rifle that was never paired with a scope originally.
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The rifle certainly appears legit to me. The staking of the pad screws looks legit. It is possible this rifle was not mated to a scope at H&H. Interesting it went through Weldon Arsenal.
 
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Crate,

S51 indeed ... typo for sure, you can see I typed S51 in other places. Seems you caught the bug from me below - you want Weedon, not Weldon. ;)

Interesting it went through Weldon Arsenal.
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I made the point about the serial number because you seemed to have missed the point of my question - of course I know a full serial has a prefix, but I was asking whether the numerical series started with that all important 3.

Tiki.
 
With a screen name like mad crate builder, you ought to be the guy building the transit cases. LOL I am a cabinet builder by trade and want to find plans or detailed pics and measurements to try one of my own. The gun is getting me kind of bummed but I hope to keep up with it.
 
Don't be bummed, for me the rifle is the barreled action - Enfield stocks were frequently replaced through FTR programs or when returned to store at depot repair, such as Weedon. It is only a major concern for collectors who want a completely original rifle, from boots to braces. I would still be very proud to have that rifle in my collection, seek out a No32 scope for it, get it on there, get the right sling and scope caps and be happy.

Tiki.
 
The fact that your (T) is not a cookie cutter (T) makes it more interesting. Don't give up so soon. It may well have some interesting history behind it.
 
@Madcrate me and the family were just in Oregon over Easter for a vacation, had a great time. On the coast in Yachats. Actually found a really nice little gun shop there along the highway. Very small but very friendly folks at that store.
 
That's a nice area. Just did a three day mini vacation near there last week. Many of the hardware stores over there still sell guns. Prices can run high, they are trolling for rich valley folks.
 
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