I am looking for a traditional black powder flint or percussion rifle but know nothing about the various makers other than Lyman, Traditions, CVA and so forth. What brand do you guys recommend ? I want a twist rate for patched round ball. Is any brand more known for an accurate rifle ?
BP rifle
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
Traditions and CVA are importers. Their guns are made in Spain and CVA doesn't import traditional rifles anymore. The Lyman Great Plains is a good rifle with a 1:60 round ball twist. If you can find a good used CVA Mountain Rifle those are good with a 1:66 twist and the early ones had Douglas barrels. Pedersoli makes a line of Hawken rifles with elevation adjustable Gemmer sights and a 1:65 twist but they're the most expensive but stay away from what they call their traditional Hawken's. They look like TC's and have a 1:48 twist. My .54 Hawken was scratch built including most of the iron by a fella in Indiana.
I would say the Lyman BPR is the best one under $700, for a factory built rifle. The imported Pettersoli is even nicer, but the cost is at a level you are very close to a hand built rifle. I hear pricing from $1100 to $1200.
Both Lyman and Petersoli are known for excellent accuracy.
I build a hand made Hawken reproduction starting at $1400 and if you have one made made you get your length of pull, drop at comb, choice of right or left hand, caliber and barrel length.
As the cost goes up from there, you get many other choices, Full stock VS half stock. tapered barrels, Higher grades of wood, Engraving, Patch or cap boxes, Silver, iron or brass highlights, and on and on.
On the low end you get something like this rifle. All have fit and finish nicer than a Petersoli, made with an excellent lock and barrel. $1400 is average.
100_1476 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
On the high end (of a Hawken) you get one like this. This one would cost about $2300
100_1479 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
And on the other hand, you may not want a Hawken. If you want an American longrifle you can get guns like this:
Randy'd Carolina 2 pics by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Both Lyman and Petersoli are known for excellent accuracy.
I build a hand made Hawken reproduction starting at $1400 and if you have one made made you get your length of pull, drop at comb, choice of right or left hand, caliber and barrel length.
As the cost goes up from there, you get many other choices, Full stock VS half stock. tapered barrels, Higher grades of wood, Engraving, Patch or cap boxes, Silver, iron or brass highlights, and on and on.
On the low end you get something like this rifle. All have fit and finish nicer than a Petersoli, made with an excellent lock and barrel. $1400 is average.
100_1476 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrOn the high end (of a Hawken) you get one like this. This one would cost about $2300
100_1479 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrAnd on the other hand, you may not want a Hawken. If you want an American longrifle you can get guns like this:
Randy'd Carolina 2 pics by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Last edited:
Or a fancy American longrifle, like this
100_1172 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
100_1177 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
100_1199 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
100_1172 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr100_1177 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr100_1199 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrAnd if you are interested in the highest grade rifles of the time, there are the German Jaegers
100_0608 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
000_0185 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
000_0187 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
97 Jaeger carving by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
97 Jaeger lock by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
aag-443_2 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
So like most other things in,ife, what you get is depending on price and the time you are willing to wait.
But high grade rifles are made over time. The one good thing about a high-end rifle is that you get to pay it off over time because of the length of the backlog. No builder of any good level of skill has no backlog. So time is an element of the purchase that needs to be considered.
100_0608 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr000_0185 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr000_0187 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr97 Jaeger carving by Steve Zihn, on Flickr97 Jaeger lock by Steve Zihn, on Flickraag-443_2 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrSo like most other things in,ife, what you get is depending on price and the time you are willing to wait.
But high grade rifles are made over time. The one good thing about a high-end rifle is that you get to pay it off over time because of the length of the backlog. No builder of any good level of skill has no backlog. So time is an element of the purchase that needs to be considered.
man wyo,,,,,those are real beauties!!!!
i have built some from scratch,,mostly working kind of guns,,,(not that fancy purdy stuff) for myself,,my kids and the guys i was shooting with when i was buck skinnin along the way and a few kits in there too,,,but nothing like that,,,,whew them things are too purdy to shoot
nice, nice, nice
ocharry
i have built some from scratch,,mostly working kind of guns,,,(not that fancy purdy stuff) for myself,,my kids and the guys i was shooting with when i was buck skinnin along the way and a few kits in there too,,,but nothing like that,,,,whew them things are too purdy to shoot
nice, nice, nice
ocharry
Well, thanks guys,
but I disagree about them being to nice to hunt with. I hunt with mine!
Look........If you buy a $26,000 automobile, and you drive it around for 10 years it will drop in value about 75%. It will get scratches, shopping cart dents, chips in the windshield, and the paint will fade and maybe crack or blister. But you have no problem using it for the intended purpose......right?
Now if you buy a $3000 muzzle loader and use it for 10 years you will get some wear and scratches on it too. But in 10 years it goes UP in value a bit. Sometimes quite a but, like 25% to 40%
Even my lower priced guns don't drop in value. At $1400, some of the guns I made 15 years ago are still sold for about the same amount today. The lower priced guns don't go up faster than the average, but they don't drop either. I made and sold guns 15-20 years ago that sell today for the same price my customers bought them for.
And they sold for a LOT less then a car.
This is not true with even the best factory guns, and not even with semi-custom guns. But fully handmade custom guns (of fine quality) don't go down in value. They hold their own, or go up!
So why would we not use well made, nice guns?
This one has been used by me to kill antelope, deer elk and one moose.
my Rifle 2 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
My Rifle 3 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
My Rifle by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
but I disagree about them being to nice to hunt with. I hunt with mine!
Look........If you buy a $26,000 automobile, and you drive it around for 10 years it will drop in value about 75%. It will get scratches, shopping cart dents, chips in the windshield, and the paint will fade and maybe crack or blister. But you have no problem using it for the intended purpose......right?
Now if you buy a $3000 muzzle loader and use it for 10 years you will get some wear and scratches on it too. But in 10 years it goes UP in value a bit. Sometimes quite a but, like 25% to 40%
Even my lower priced guns don't drop in value. At $1400, some of the guns I made 15 years ago are still sold for about the same amount today. The lower priced guns don't go up faster than the average, but they don't drop either. I made and sold guns 15-20 years ago that sell today for the same price my customers bought them for.
And they sold for a LOT less then a car.
This is not true with even the best factory guns, and not even with semi-custom guns. But fully handmade custom guns (of fine quality) don't go down in value. They hold their own, or go up!
So why would we not use well made, nice guns?
This one has been used by me to kill antelope, deer elk and one moose.
my Rifle 2 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrMy Rifle 3 by Steve Zihn, on FlickrMy Rifle by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Last edited:
oh i prolly would use them too,,, but man they are purdy
is that gun you hunt with a swamped barrel?? or are my eyes deceiving me..
the last one i built for me has a 54cal 32" tapered barrel...it sure handles good in the woods,,looks good,,,,but it sure isnt the lookers like you build!!!
very nice work wyo,,,im sure your rifles do hold their value,,,no doubt about it
ocharry
is that gun you hunt with a swamped barrel?? or are my eyes deceiving me..
the last one i built for me has a 54cal 32" tapered barrel...it sure handles good in the woods,,looks good,,,,but it sure isnt the lookers like you build!!!
very nice work wyo,,,im sure your rifles do hold their value,,,no doubt about it
ocharry
Nothing wrong with it. The dude did a helluva job. Carved the stock out of a blank. It even has just the right amount of cast off. He made most of the metal parts like the trigger guard, butt plate, ram rod thimbles, even the lock plate and put Chambers internals in it. The triggers came out of an antique English rifle and are oh so sweet but next to yours it pales by comparison.
lol,,,one of these days i am gona figure out how to post pics on this sight,,,lol,,,i can do a lot of things but get pics on here has eluded me,,,for a long time
that is a nice looking rifle you got there Hawg,,,he did a good job for ya,,,i bet it shoots just fine too
ocharry
that is a nice looking rifle you got there Hawg,,,he did a good job for ya,,,i bet it shoots just fine too
ocharry
Thanks. It shoots very well. It has a NOS Douglas barrel made for a CVA mountain rifle with a 1:66 twist. He cut the breech off above the drum and installed a slanted breech with a snail. It's a little short for a Hawken at 31 inches but at 50 yards it will put them all in one hole. Albeit a big hole but one hole nonetheless.
Since photobucket went down the poop chute I've been using Imgur. It's not as easy as PB but it works. Upload your pic, then click on it and copy the BBCode, second from bottom and paste it.
Since photobucket went down the poop chute I've been using Imgur. It's not as easy as PB but it works. Upload your pic, then click on it and copy the BBCode, second from bottom and paste it.
Model12Win
Moderator
I fancy my Lyman's:
Ain't so fancy as Wyos, but shoots "plum center" as the old hands called it. And with 28 balls to the pound can defeat bar or injun rightly. Takes what I have heard called a "cap" or "primer" and has shown to be superior to a firelock in discharge of the piece with reliability.
Ain't so fancy as Wyos, but shoots "plum center" as the old hands called it. And with 28 balls to the pound can defeat bar or injun rightly. Takes what I have heard called a "cap" or "primer" and has shown to be superior to a firelock in discharge of the piece with reliability.