Something to ponder. The Lyman is made by Investarms in Italy. The Cabelas Traditional Hawken is made by Investarms too.
They both have the same triggers,locks,barrel(Cabelas gun is shorter barrel but the same barrel steel and a 1-48 twist rifling by the same Manufacturer) tang ect ect.
The Hawken with the 1-48 twist is meant to shoot both the ball and the conical. Anomaly is....the reality of that works like this....
One 1-48 will shoot both the ball and the conical well. One other will shoot the ball but not the conical or shoot the conical but not the ball. Some don't shoot either the ball or the conical well. Strange anomaly fer rifles with the same rifling in all of them. Never heard of anyone that figgered it out why neither. Just the way it is. A gamble.
Thompson Centers Hawken,Renegade ect.ect. with 1-48 is the same. Might shoot both ball and conical or may not.
I have an old Investarms Hawken in 50cal. and the 1-48 twist in the barrel that shoots both the ball and the conical real well. Good old gun it is and puts both projectiles in a grapefruit size groups at 200 paces or further. Any lead slug conical I shove down the bore shoots real well. Has the chrome lined bore the Investarms rifles had a while back. Good thing to have since that chrome lined fights off rust well. When Cabelas sucked up most all the Investarms Hawkens the chrome line went away. Cheapens the cost and profits fer the retalers.
I've sold plenty of the Hawkens back when I had my Muzzleloader shop. I sold cheap both the Lymans Great Plains and the Hawkens.....sometimes at my cost plus what shipping I paid. Hombres would come back to buy loadin stuff and all. Just sayin.....I know the rifles.
The Investarms (Hawken and Great Plains Rifle) are a little rougher than the Thompson Center Side locks. The TC side locks are a lkittle more refined in fit and all like locks and triggers.
There are Companys that sell high quality locks and triggers fer the rifles (both the TC and the Investarms) that make a difference.
Old reports about the rifles and mishaps like barrel bulges and ruptures were mostly caused by bad loading practices and......FFFg powder and the heavy conicals. The FFg powder is a better choice than FFFg fer the rifles and their barrel steel where the heavy conicals are concerned.
The loading of 50cal. conicals is safest when the 80gr. powder charge is considered the max. The guns can take more powder but(like the 54 or 58cal)...why push the envelope if yer not huntin the big bears or elk? The 50cal.balls will do 500ft/lbs at 100 yards and the conicals will do 1,000ft/lbs at the 100 yards. The balls doin 1,800 ft/sec and the conicals doin 1,400ft/sec. approx. with 90-100gr.FFg powder.
The 50cal. Italian rifles like the Lyman and the Cabelas Traditional Hawken have a bore .005 in. bigger than the American rifles like the Thompson Center side locks.
That means the Italian guns like the .495 balls over the .490 balls and the same fer the conicals as they like bigger ones too(bigger by .005's).
The 54cal. Italians like the .535 balls over the .530 balls and the thicker patches on the .530 balls don't work as well as one may thunk. Thicker lead instead of thicker cloth is best.
The conicals fer the Italians 50cal. guns like to be sized .502-.503(different guns may vary) to load straight so they shoot straight. That size will mostly stay put in the barrels. The standard .500 conicals can be a lil loose and need checked with the ramrods while hunting and all in the Italian rifles.
If the conicals aren't loaded straight they don't shoot straight.
Anyway....I favor the Pedersoli rifles like the Tryon rifles or the newer Hawkens. Good quality and chrome lined bores fer both I thunk. I have two of the Tryon Pedersoli rifles and one is old and shot a lot. Really accurate with the balls and it's slow twist in 54cal which is really a 53 cal. and uses the .525 balls not the .530 or .520 balls. Top notch triggers and locks too.
Why not go the extra money and end up with a family heirloom(not sayin the cheaper rifles can't be an heirloom).
A real sleeper is the Pedersoli Rolling Block rifles in muzzleloader. Look like the Remington Rolling Blocks but are muzzleloaders and have either octagon or round barrels. I like the octagon barrels ones.
They have the fast twist shallow grooves like a real conical should have(not like the deeper grooves like the 1-48's have).
The Pedersoli Rolling Block rifle I have in 50cal. shoots at 400 yards like most other rifles in muzzleloader will shoot at 200 yards. Real accurate way out there.
The conicals fast twist is best when the grooves are shallow like a cartridge gun. Don't blow all the gas past the bullet.
Anywhoooo....this is all ust my opinion as an old black powder shooter.
They both have the same triggers,locks,barrel(Cabelas gun is shorter barrel but the same barrel steel and a 1-48 twist rifling by the same Manufacturer) tang ect ect.
The Hawken with the 1-48 twist is meant to shoot both the ball and the conical. Anomaly is....the reality of that works like this....
One 1-48 will shoot both the ball and the conical well. One other will shoot the ball but not the conical or shoot the conical but not the ball. Some don't shoot either the ball or the conical well. Strange anomaly fer rifles with the same rifling in all of them. Never heard of anyone that figgered it out why neither. Just the way it is. A gamble.
Thompson Centers Hawken,Renegade ect.ect. with 1-48 is the same. Might shoot both ball and conical or may not.
I have an old Investarms Hawken in 50cal. and the 1-48 twist in the barrel that shoots both the ball and the conical real well. Good old gun it is and puts both projectiles in a grapefruit size groups at 200 paces or further. Any lead slug conical I shove down the bore shoots real well. Has the chrome lined bore the Investarms rifles had a while back. Good thing to have since that chrome lined fights off rust well. When Cabelas sucked up most all the Investarms Hawkens the chrome line went away. Cheapens the cost and profits fer the retalers.
I've sold plenty of the Hawkens back when I had my Muzzleloader shop. I sold cheap both the Lymans Great Plains and the Hawkens.....sometimes at my cost plus what shipping I paid. Hombres would come back to buy loadin stuff and all. Just sayin.....I know the rifles.
The Investarms (Hawken and Great Plains Rifle) are a little rougher than the Thompson Center Side locks. The TC side locks are a lkittle more refined in fit and all like locks and triggers.
There are Companys that sell high quality locks and triggers fer the rifles (both the TC and the Investarms) that make a difference.
Old reports about the rifles and mishaps like barrel bulges and ruptures were mostly caused by bad loading practices and......FFFg powder and the heavy conicals. The FFg powder is a better choice than FFFg fer the rifles and their barrel steel where the heavy conicals are concerned.
The loading of 50cal. conicals is safest when the 80gr. powder charge is considered the max. The guns can take more powder but(like the 54 or 58cal)...why push the envelope if yer not huntin the big bears or elk? The 50cal.balls will do 500ft/lbs at 100 yards and the conicals will do 1,000ft/lbs at the 100 yards. The balls doin 1,800 ft/sec and the conicals doin 1,400ft/sec. approx. with 90-100gr.FFg powder.
The 50cal. Italian rifles like the Lyman and the Cabelas Traditional Hawken have a bore .005 in. bigger than the American rifles like the Thompson Center side locks.
That means the Italian guns like the .495 balls over the .490 balls and the same fer the conicals as they like bigger ones too(bigger by .005's).
The 54cal. Italians like the .535 balls over the .530 balls and the thicker patches on the .530 balls don't work as well as one may thunk. Thicker lead instead of thicker cloth is best.
The conicals fer the Italians 50cal. guns like to be sized .502-.503(different guns may vary) to load straight so they shoot straight. That size will mostly stay put in the barrels. The standard .500 conicals can be a lil loose and need checked with the ramrods while hunting and all in the Italian rifles.
If the conicals aren't loaded straight they don't shoot straight.
Anyway....I favor the Pedersoli rifles like the Tryon rifles or the newer Hawkens. Good quality and chrome lined bores fer both I thunk. I have two of the Tryon Pedersoli rifles and one is old and shot a lot. Really accurate with the balls and it's slow twist in 54cal which is really a 53 cal. and uses the .525 balls not the .530 or .520 balls. Top notch triggers and locks too.
Why not go the extra money and end up with a family heirloom(not sayin the cheaper rifles can't be an heirloom).
A real sleeper is the Pedersoli Rolling Block rifles in muzzleloader. Look like the Remington Rolling Blocks but are muzzleloaders and have either octagon or round barrels. I like the octagon barrels ones.
They have the fast twist shallow grooves like a real conical should have(not like the deeper grooves like the 1-48's have).
The Pedersoli Rolling Block rifle I have in 50cal. shoots at 400 yards like most other rifles in muzzleloader will shoot at 200 yards. Real accurate way out there.
The conicals fast twist is best when the grooves are shallow like a cartridge gun. Don't blow all the gas past the bullet.
Anywhoooo....this is all ust my opinion as an old black powder shooter.
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