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http://www.dispatch.com/news/newsfea00/may00/272491.html

Methodists seek government ban on owning guns

Wednesday, May 10, 2000

Dennis M. Mahoney
Dispatch Religion Reporter

CLEVELAND -- The United

Methodists didn't mince words when talking about guns.

Ban them, they said.

The denomination, holding its national conference at the Cleveland Convention Center, handily passed a resolution yesterday that urges a government ban on the ownership of guns in the United States and in countries where the church has a presence.

The resolution, which passed 724- 205, is the first substantive statement on gun violence by the 9.6 million- member denomination. The ban addresses handguns, assault weapons and automatic weapons.

It was passed after delegates rejected an amendment to delete handguns from the resolution, a compromise sought by some who argued that Americans have a right to own guns to protect themselves.

"If someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night to do bodily harm to myself or my wife, I can't pull out the Book of Resolutions and say, 'Wait a minute, I'm a United Methodist. I've got a position on this,' '' said the Rev. Scott Kelso, pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Pickerington.

But Jeremiah Thompson, a delegate from Kankakee, Ill., argued that "Guns are destroying our society. . . . We need to take a stand.''

The resolution says the church must work to reduce gun violence, including taking steps such as educating United Methodists about preventing violence and ensuring gun safety.

It also supports legislation to regulate the manufacture, sale and ownership of guns, including registration and licensing for gun owners and background checks and waiting periods for gun purchases.

The church's General Conference meets every four years to consider proposed changes in the denomination's policies.

The issue of the role of gays continues to swirl.

A protest is planned this morning by Soulforce, a coalition in support of gay rights that has been demonstrating outside the convention center each day since the conference opened May 2.

Soulforce members asked to be present in the convention hall this morning during a worship service in which the Rev. George Carey, the archbishop of Canterbury, will speak.

The request was denied. Members said they will conduct a "walk of justice'' during which they will try to enter the hall and possibly be arrested.

Some from the group have said that 500 people could participate in the demonstration.

The Rev. Jim Lawson, a retired United Methodist minister from Los Angeles and a leader of Soulforce, said the group will be "dramatizing the issue'' of violence against gays that it says is fostered by church teachings that condemn homosexuality as sinful.

"It must end, because it's the language of death,'' Lawson said. "It's killing people.''

The Faith and Order Committee yesterday ended its work on a number of proposals to change church policies on issues such as the ordination of gays and its ban on ministers performing same-sex unions.

In nearly all cases, the committee voted to retain language on gays currently contained in the Book of Discipline, which governs the church. It did agree to recommend adding language that reads, "We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn their lesbian and gay members and friends.''

Before taking up about 40 proposals dealing with abortion yesterday, the committee also voted against endorsing three proposals to change language on divorce.

One would have prohibited a divorced person from remarrying while his or her ex-spouse is alive.

All committee recommendations will be sent to the floor for final action by delegates before the conference closes Friday.

Another resolution that delegates approved by a wide margin denounces the use of "offensive racist logos.''

The resolution, which passed 610- 293, was aimed in particular at the use of the Chief Wahoo mascot by the Cleveland Indians.

The baseball team said the church's opposition will not alter the use of the big-toothed Indian logo. Chief Wahoo was designed in the mid-1940s.

The church's resolution said the mascot demeans American Indians by reducing them to a caricature.

Information from the Associated Press was used in this story.
 
Let us not forgit that the Methodist Church was a major,if not the prime, backer of the founding of HCI. The church of John Wesley has become some thing that he would not know. They had even removed ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS from the hymnals.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited May 10, 2000).]
 
Sad news, but hardly unexpected. Contrary to what this story claims, the Book of Discipline already contains anti-gun statements, although nothing as harsh as this. Time to reconsider my membership and have a talk withour pastor.
 
It's hard to associate such liberal drivel with the teachings of Christ. He was anything but a pacifistic sheep nor an idiot!
 
Will be speking with my pastor, and quite possibly pulling my letter of membership!

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I thought I'd seen it all, until a 22WMR spun a bunny 2 1/4 times in the air!
 
Methodists believe that it is wrong to take a human life under any circumstances. We should submit to murder rather than defend ourselves with lethal force. They oppose the death penalty. They also believe that a woman should submit to a rape and the murdering of her children before using lethal force to prevent it. I do believe that they have the religious right to think what they want, but by urging the government to act in a certain way does that not violate a separation of chruch and state and does becoming politically active not jepordize the tax exempt status of the church?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff OTMG:
Methodists believe that it is wrong to take a human life under any circumstances. We should submit to murder rather than defend ourselves with lethal force.[/quote]

Jeff, can you provide a citation for this info? I've been a Methodist all my life and have never heard this before, nor can I find a reference to this in the Book of Discipline.
 
The book of Disipline is a crock, the law is made by God in the Bible, it is not ours to make our own subsets of the law!
 
Sadly, I too will be speaking with the pastor and reading the Methodist newspapers on Sunday. I rather admire and like John Wesley. His brother wrote some beautiful hymns. Here in my city the church is full old people who won't really give a damn. But I gotta think that in the farmtowns of America this and the sodomite issue are not gonna go over well. Thank God for the Bible and Jesus Christ. If the church proves to have been built on sand, we still have a foundation of rock to stand upon. Frankly, I love my church, but I am not giving money to an organization which stands for weakness in the face of depravity and vagin-ation (there's that word again).
 
David R., I got the information by reading a transcript of a speech given by a Methodist minister over 10 years ago. The idea was that a human life is sacred and it is not our place to pass judgement on another person. We allow ourselves to be killed before killing the attacker so that God will judge us for out actions and when the time comes He will judge the actions of out killer too. I am not a Methodist so if this is wrong and Methodists approve of the use of lethal force to prevent an attack PLEASE let me know. My dad USE to me a Methodist, but didn't stick with it when he entered the service and LE.
 
Great, just (obscenity deleted) great, now my organized religion is turning on me...

I got up and walked out of church a few years ago in the middle of the service when the "minister" started denouncing the NRA. I was the one of several members in the congregation, but I was the only one to have the guts to get up and leave.

The United Methodists have, for years, bankrolled HCI, and in fact at one time I believe one of the Bishops even sat on the HCI board.

I used to hunt dove and deer with my minister when I lived in Pennsylvania. Wonder how he feels about this?

Anyone know the Lutheran stance on firearms? I was raised Methodist, but my father's family has an unbroken Lutheran line going back nearly 500 years.
 
Jeff, I simply don't know the answer to your question. I've looked in the Book of Discipline and can't find any mention of this, although the passages about alcohol, capital punishment, and homosexuality were easy to locate. I have never heard anyone assert that this is doctrine of the United Methodist Church, but I just don't know for sure. Perhaps the minister you refer to was injecting some of his own thoughts into the sermon. Perhaps not, Regardless, the church's new action on the RKBA issue is a serious step in the wrong direction, and I may have to leave based on that alone.

Can anyone recommend another more tolerant denomination that isn't so intent on assisting the forces of evil?
 
Marxist Socialism dictates that the various religions must be infiltrated and taken over. That is precisely what has happened to not only the Methodist Church (I grew up in the Methodist Church, too), but to most of the mainstream Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish organizations. You'll have to travel long and far to find a church/temple in America, today, in which the head of that religion does not demand the confiscation of our firearms by their communistnazi Lords and Masters.

Everything they preach is to eventually bring about the Great Brave New Marxist Socialist Police State Utopia. J.B.
 
Separation of church and state?

Freedom of religion?

Should we be suspicious today as more and more "religious leaders" take an "anti-freedom" position? If we follow a religion and our religious leaders lead us into enslavement, what have we gained in our faith?

Didn't the Pope recently jump on this bandwagon too?

Makes you wonder about organizied religions. Also note that there were 929 Methodist leaders (mentioned in the article) voting for "9.6 million" Methodists! Something very wrong with that picture. Sounds alot like democracy...or two wolves and a sheep trying to decide what's for dinner!!!
 
Dennis- I read on the board recently that the Mormon Church banned concealed carry in their churches.
 
This has been all over the local (Cleveland)news all day. No mention of guns though. The main topic was out of state protesters and trouble makers brought in to protest the churches anti gay stance. Lots of arrests of the protesters, and lots of camera shots of some nut shouting "God hates fag's". Makes both sides look like idiots. First I've heard of the Chief Wahoo and gun slant.
 
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