Bore snake damaging the bore?

I would never move anything back and forth in the barrel. Cleaning swabs, snakes, etc should only travel the same direction as the bullet.
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I pretty much addressed this in my other post. I have been shooting & cleaning since 1948. Never seen a bore hurt by back & forth motion yet. This includes scrubbing M1 rifles using back & forth and hot lye soap water. A barrel is dirty after just one round fired. Shooting ammo through that barrel at high velocity with high temperature is a lot worse than scrubbing with a bore brush wet with bore cleaner or soap.

I would like to see some evidence of this obsurd statement
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Me too.
 
I don't understand the concern about damaging a barrel. Can it be scratched by something sharp edged and hard? Yes. Can it be damaged by a copper brush? No.

Stop and think about what a gun does for a minute. A piece of metal , usually copper, in contact with the walls of the barrel is launched with pressures as high as 50,000psi (or more), finally exiting at speeds as high as 3X faster than sound.
What is a copper brush going to do? I have cleaned barrels with a cleaning brush on the end of an electric drill. You're not going to hurt it.
 
change they way they are angled and in doing so the very sharp and needle like ends of them will be forced straight into the barrel.
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No how...no way.

Stop and think about what a gun does for a minute. A piece of metal , usually copper, in contact with the walls of the barrel is launched with pressures as high as 50,000psi (or more), finally exiting at speeds as high as 3X faster than sound.
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Ditto.

A wet bronze bore brush damaging the bore of a firearm is just urban myth.
 
Really. Urban myth? I mean what would these guys know? After all they are only barrel makers.

"We recently had a discussion with the barrel-makers at Bartlein Barrels. They confirmed that they have seen many, many more barrels harmed by crown damage caused by improper cleaning than by anything else. If you use a bronze brush, Bartlein recommends that you remove the brush after it passes through the muzzle. This is because the bristles take a set (pointing to the breech) during the out-stroke. In other words the bristles angle back as you push towards the muzzle from the breech. If you drag the brush backwards at the muzzle, you force these bristles to reverse direction abruptly right as they cross the delicate crown. In time, that can damage the crown. John Krieger of Krieger Barrels also advises his customers not to pull a bronze brush backwards across the crown."

And I stand corrected. Even when the brush exits do not pull it back through.

Find me any barrel maker that says it's ok to reverse the direction of the brush while it's still in the barrel.
 
Find me any barrel maker that says it's ok to reverse the direction of the brush while it's still in the barrel.
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Believe what you want. They are just trying to protect themselves. The fact is scrubbing back & forth does not hurt a barrel. I am basing this on over 50 years of personal experience. After all the talk I have never ever seen a barrel or crown hurt by cleaning with a bronze brush....ever.
 
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Well,if you push the brush through the barrel and then out the end it enters the bullet loading area of the gun.

Then when you pull it back through the barrel,the brush 'hairs' are aligned away from the pull of the stroke.

Obviously,I would never stop a cleaning brush in a barrel and scrub it like I was scrubbing a floor but out the end and pulled back carefully,there really is'nt a problem there is it?

Now I have heard of alot of warnings about not messing up the muzzle end of the barrel.

I adhere to those.

But I use a Outers brand brass rod cleaning kit to clean my guns and I have'nt seemed to have a problem yet.

The 22 patches are tight but as long as you don't fold them as you put them in the fitting,they go into and out of the barrel just fine.

And a little snug means they grab all that trash as they come out.

Several patches later and the last one comes out clean and in goes the gun lube.
 
Obviously,I would never stop a cleaning brush in a barrel and scrub it like I was scrubbing a floor but out the end and pulled back carefully,there really is'nt a problem there is it?
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I agree with that. Really I don't stop half way either. If for no other reason it's hard to do.

Since I have gone this far I will add about accuracy due to crown/brush damage. I believe if you took the average of 100 rounds before and after using a brush "the wrong way" on a barrel crown on a rifle at say 300 yards. You would not find any statistical difference in the numbers. If taken out to 3 standard deviations you would probably find no difference in the data that could be tied to crown/brush issues. The difference would be less than the natural deviation due to humidity, wind, powder burn rate, bullet weight, etc.

Now if you paid $10,000.00 or so for that rifle then I would not blame you for brushing in only one direction....:)

This is one of these go on forever issues. I do take very good care of my firearms. In fact, you could say I baby them....that's what my wife says anyway. But I simply have never seen any proof that a wet bronze brush ever damaged a steel barrel.
 
Some folks remove the brush's bristles from the .22 Bore Snake. I haven't tried that but ALL my .22s like to shoot a bit dirty so I don't snake until groups start opening up and stick to lead bullets with no coating.

The pull through systems like Otis and Bore Snake are all I prefer to use on my 10/22s but I do have a bore guide for use with a Dewey 1-piece rod so I can use a jag & patch if the rifling grooves start to get leaded in too much.

A lot of 22 shooters claim using copper washed bullets IS bore cleaning.
 
Btolliverjr

No I do not, nor have I ever, own a muzzle loader. The firearms I own have nice looking, gouge free crowns though. Due to the fact that I intend to keep it that way I will continue to clean them in the manner prescribed by the majority of barrel makers and the few gun shop owners and amateur (more or less) gunsmiths I am fortunate enough to know.

It may very well never hurt a barrel to move a brass brush back and forth inside it. You may very well be lucky enough to not step on a landmine walking through a mine field, but I will try to never test that either.
 
Can someone explain how the crown, which is made of the same single, contiguous piece of steel as the rest of the barrel, is more delicate than the rest of the barrel?

If you damage the innards of a barrel it will shoot poorly. If you damage the crown it may also shoot poorly. The crown is no more "delicate" than the rest of the barrel.

Somebody take a piece of hardened steel and run a bronze brush on it with a drill. Let us know how long it takes to cause damage.
 
Somebody take a piece of hardened steel and run a bronze brush on it with a drill.
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Maybe I missed something, but I would not recommend using a drill with brush attached on the barrel. You change from lateral motion to rotating and I agree that's not what you want.
 
I'll take a stab at an explanation from what I understand and I'm sure more knowledgeable members will
give better explanations.

If the rifling lands and grooves don't all end at the same axial distance down the bore the crown must correct this situation. The length of lands and grooves are longer than the length of the barrel to impart spin to the bullet. Propellant will have something to push on slightly longer on a longer part of the rifling than on a shorter. This would tip the bullet toward the shorter part of the rifling even if it weren't rotating at, say, 120,000 rpm.

The last part of the bullet out of the barrel still want to follow the rifling when the is no rifling left on the short part because the crown is incorrectly oriented to the bore and rifling. So, in effect, the bullet stubs its toe at the crown.

A nick or burr on the crown, a crown cut not concentric with the bore in any combination can play hobb with accuracy.
 
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A nick or burr on the crown, a crown cut not concentric with the bore in any combination can play hobb with accuracy.
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The crown is important, I don't dispute that. What I can't figure is how it's supposedly "delicate". It's made from the same metal as the rest of the barrel. It is, therefore, no easier (or harder) to damage than the rest of the barrel.

I've seen more rednecks than I could ever count "cleaning" guns with all manner of tools. Many things I would NEVER try on my own guns. I've also never seen one of their guns not shoot accurately.
 
It's made from the same metal as the rest of the barrel. It is, therefore, no easier (or harder) to damage than the rest of the barrel.
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Actually, the crown (and the chamber) are easiest places to damage a barrel because they're on the ends and accessible to foreign objects perhaps made of harder materials, that can change the desired result in accuracy and it doesn't take much to make a difference. The inside of the bore can be damaged but not as easily.
 
Easier because of accessibility, yes. Easier? No.

If I do the same thing to the crown and the rifling exactly half way down the barrel they will either both be damaged or neither will be damaged.
 
No ******* contest here ;). Easier is easier but remember you are not the only means to cause damage to the crown or chamber.

If you are careful, soupah! Me too. That's why they have bore guides if you need 'em. and keep harder metals away entirely.

The metal may be the same at the crown but there are more surfaces available to ding at the crown than inside the bore.
 
I just wonder if this whole "wear and tear" business concerning the crown and/or rifling really makes much of a difference when speaking of handguns which, lets be honest, seem to have relatively short range effectiveness to begin with. I mean, barring competition class weapons, is it truly going to alter accuracy THAT much when speaking of, say, 50 to 75 yards or so? This goes double for typical HD ranges. Now, for rifles, I could see the concern.

Dont get me wrong. I see no problem with trying to keep the bore as sharp and clean as possible. But, sometimes, I feel it tends to become far too much of an obsession.

To answer the main question posted, I use the Bore Snake for all of my weapons, handguns and shotguns included. I have yet to see any noticeable wear which would cause me concern at this point.

Rest easy...it should be just fine.
 
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I use bore snakes for all of my rifles and handguns. I have no concern. They simplify a quick cleaning either at the range or at home. I try to be careful with the crown whenever cleaning to avoid any damage that would hurt accuracy.
 
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