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Bolt gun safety
- Thread starter tangolima
- Start date
I think it is a really stupid way of doing things. What specific rifle are you talking about? Remington 700 used to be like this, but it was changed years ago, in 1982.
I also seem to recall Remington fixing pre 1982 Remington 700s, so if that is what you have, there is an easy solution.
I also seem to recall Remington fixing pre 1982 Remington 700s, so if that is what you have, there is an easy solution.
The old Remington 700 is an example. There is a tap on the safety lever to block the bolt from opening. The recall repair is easy; they just grind that tap off. But that's not the point. Apparently they purposely designed that tap in there. They must have done that for a reason, other than being stupid. Stupidity usually takes the path of least resistance.
In fact a lot, if not all, rifles of the old times have this "feature". Just from my own collection, smle, gew88, arisaka, steyr m93. Even Mauser has that in a way, if it doesn't have the middle notch. Not 100% sure, but I think the Swiss k11 and k31 and mosin nagant do that too.
I guess it was the norm of bolt gun safeties back in the day. In the case of Remington, they just went out of their way to maintain this tradition, even they didn't have to. They paid the efforts, but ended up doing the wrong thing.
-TL
In fact a lot, if not all, rifles of the old times have this "feature". Just from my own collection, smle, gew88, arisaka, steyr m93. Even Mauser has that in a way, if it doesn't have the middle notch. Not 100% sure, but I think the Swiss k11 and k31 and mosin nagant do that too.
I guess it was the norm of bolt gun safeties back in the day. In the case of Remington, they just went out of their way to maintain this tradition, even they didn't have to. They paid the efforts, but ended up doing the wrong thing.
-TL
Locking the bolt down when on "SAFE" prevents brush from grabbing the bolt handle when walking and opening the action. almost always when slung over a shoulder. It does happen and when it does you lose the round in the chamber. It also leaves you walking around with the bolt open where it could be broken and debris can more easily enter the action.
Rifles with 3 position safeties allow you to unlock the action with the gun still on "SAFE" to unload them and still lock down the bolt. This is my preferred action type.
Some 2 position safeties lock down the bolt, others do not. Remingtons made prior to the early 80's locked them down. But due to a flawed trigger design many of these guns were dropping the firing pin with no trigger pull as the rifles were carried. The safety was the only thing holding the firing pin back. When owners moved the safety to the "FIRE" position to unload the gun would fire with no trigger pull. Changing the safety so that it no longer locked down the bolt allowed the gun to be unloaded without moving the safety. While it didn't address the real problem, it did reduce the number of incidents.
Remington did finally redesign the trigger in late 2006 and they no longer need the non-locking safety. I wish they would go back.
Rifles with 3 position safeties allow you to unlock the action with the gun still on "SAFE" to unload them and still lock down the bolt. This is my preferred action type.
Some 2 position safeties lock down the bolt, others do not. Remingtons made prior to the early 80's locked them down. But due to a flawed trigger design many of these guns were dropping the firing pin with no trigger pull as the rifles were carried. The safety was the only thing holding the firing pin back. When owners moved the safety to the "FIRE" position to unload the gun would fire with no trigger pull. Changing the safety so that it no longer locked down the bolt allowed the gun to be unloaded without moving the safety. While it didn't address the real problem, it did reduce the number of incidents.
Remington did finally redesign the trigger in late 2006 and they no longer need the non-locking safety. I wish they would go back.
Locking the bolt down when on "SAFE" prevents brush from grabbing the bolt handle when walking and opening the action. almost always when slung over a shoulder. It does happen and when it does you lose the round in the chamber. It also leaves you walking around with the bolt open where it could be broken and debris can more easily enter the action.
Good point. I will never think of that as I don't hunt. In fact I hardly ever use the built-in safety. My safety is not to chamber a round till I am ready to fire. It is also called "loader's safety" if I remember correctly.
3-stage safety is the best, that I agree. Unfortunately most rifles don't have that. There is one from brownell's for Remington 700. I was tempted to buy one, but I realized I didn't need a decoration on my rifle.
-TL
chris in va
New member
My CZ 527 carbines lock the bolt down. Must be a Mauser thing.
I much prefer the safety on a bolt-action rifle to be locked when on "safe" to prevent the bolt from becoming unlocked while moving through brush, etc. when hunting (as jmr40 explained). Unloading the rifle while the safety is "off" does not pose a safety issue if basic firearm safety protocol is observed (i.e., pointing the rifle in a safe direction and keeping your finger off the trigger, etc.).
As some have opined, 3-position safeties, as found on the Winchester Model 70, the Ruger MKII and the Savage Model 110 and its many variants, would seem to provide the best "solution".
As some have opined, 3-position safeties, as found on the Winchester Model 70, the Ruger MKII and the Savage Model 110 and its many variants, would seem to provide the best "solution".
Note that even a 3 position safety must be used correctly. One fellow I hunted with didn't even know there was a 3rd position on the Mauser he had. After the SECOND time I saw him bump the safety from on (straight up) to off, while his rifle was slung, I explained the Mauser safety to him.
Another fellow I knew was always worried that the 3 position safety on his Model 70 could be bumped from off to on while cycling the bolt. Never saw it happened, but he was convinced it was not a good thing for a dangerous game rifle.
It takes all kinds, I suppose...
Another fellow I knew was always worried that the 3 position safety on his Model 70 could be bumped from off to on while cycling the bolt. Never saw it happened, but he was convinced it was not a good thing for a dangerous game rifle.
It takes all kinds, I suppose...
My browning x bolt locks the bolt but also has a feature that none of my other bolt guns have.
There is a button just above the bolt handle that you can push down and open the bolt while the gun is on safe for unloading purposes. Pretty good idea and its functional because you can do it with the thumb of the hand that is working the bolt.
There is a button just above the bolt handle that you can push down and open the bolt while the gun is on safe for unloading purposes. Pretty good idea and its functional because you can do it with the thumb of the hand that is working the bolt.
math teacher
New member
Old Roper,
I had Dennis Gentry install a left hand safety on my Rem 700. He is no longer making safeties for the 700. Perhaps Midway or Brownells still has one in stock. I really like mine as does my hunting partner who has a right hand one on his rifle.
I had Dennis Gentry install a left hand safety on my Rem 700. He is no longer making safeties for the 700. Perhaps Midway or Brownells still has one in stock. I really like mine as does my hunting partner who has a right hand one on his rifle.
I can't think of a military bolt rifle I own where the safety does not also lock the bolt down. This was to prevent the rifle from ejecting a round as the Soldier moved through terrain. Based on talks with WW2 and Korea war veterans, I am of the opinion that hardly any of them ever put the safety on, as there were lots of negligent discharges!
The early Remington M721's and M700's locked the bolt when the safety was applied, but there was a little problem that killed a number of people: the trigger mechanism. The Remington M721-700 trigger mechanism would occasionally malfunction when the safety was taken off and the rifle would discharge. I talked to a Korea War vet who remembered two "hardware store new" M721's that "shot through the floorboards" of the owner's vehicles when the safeties were taken off.
Instead of redesigning the trigger mechanism and fix the problem, Remington went the low cost solution and eliminated the bolt close feature of their safety. You could open the bolt and eject the round without taking the safety off. This did not prevent accidental discharges as not everyone who took the safety off had an empty rifle.
The early Remington M721's and M700's locked the bolt when the safety was applied, but there was a little problem that killed a number of people: the trigger mechanism. The Remington M721-700 trigger mechanism would occasionally malfunction when the safety was taken off and the rifle would discharge. I talked to a Korea War vet who remembered two "hardware store new" M721's that "shot through the floorboards" of the owner's vehicles when the safeties were taken off.
Instead of redesigning the trigger mechanism and fix the problem, Remington went the low cost solution and eliminated the bolt close feature of their safety. You could open the bolt and eject the round without taking the safety off. This did not prevent accidental discharges as not everyone who took the safety off had an empty rifle.
My elk rifle is a 700 ADL, synthetic stocked '06 made in the mid-90's. It has, as has been discussed, the "safety on" bolt operation feature. All my center-fire bolt guns, which haven't been very many through the years, all locked down with the safety on. My vintage 80's Ruger M77 (tang safety) is that way, and my first deer rifle, back in the 60's, was a 7.7 Arisaka. I haven't had that rifle for a very long time, but I'm quite certain that the bolt was locked down when that big thumb safety was "on." I just acquired a really nice vintage M700 ADL in '06 made in 1968, which has the bolt lock down feature with the safety "on." Personally, I'm glad it's that way.
When I got the syn-stocked late model 700, I didn't care for that bolt operation feature while the safety was "on" at all. The first thing I noticed was that if the bolt was accidently raised/opened close to half-way, safety "off," the rifle would fire (I tried this as a test with the rifle empty), and the bolt would slam down to the closed position, dropping the firing pin. I could also see, as has been mentioned, that while hunting, that bolt could be opened on some brush while slung during a hunt, and that would be bad.
FWIW, I've never had any problems with that newer 700 whatsoever, and it's just become an unconscious, built-in thing for me to when I bring that rifle from slung mode to a "ready for a shot" position, I always run the palm of my hand over the bolt to make sure it's completely down, thumb ready on the safety; it's just an automatic thing anymore, and again, no problems.
When I got the syn-stocked late model 700, I didn't care for that bolt operation feature while the safety was "on" at all. The first thing I noticed was that if the bolt was accidently raised/opened close to half-way, safety "off," the rifle would fire (I tried this as a test with the rifle empty), and the bolt would slam down to the closed position, dropping the firing pin. I could also see, as has been mentioned, that while hunting, that bolt could be opened on some brush while slung during a hunt, and that would be bad.
FWIW, I've never had any problems with that newer 700 whatsoever, and it's just become an unconscious, built-in thing for me to when I bring that rifle from slung mode to a "ready for a shot" position, I always run the palm of my hand over the bolt to make sure it's completely down, thumb ready on the safety; it's just an automatic thing anymore, and again, no problems.
there was a little problem that killed a number of people: the trigger mechanism.
While Remington could have, and should have built a better trigger to start with, they don't deserve ALL the blame for the people killed and injured.
To state the obvious, every one of the deaths and injuries ALSO involved the users failing some part of basic gun safety.
It is ridiculously easy to do, to make a mistake and point the muzzle in what is NOT a safe direction, or what you think is a safe direction but isn't.
Remington cannot be blamed for that.
math teacher
New member
Old Roper,
Gentry is still making Mauser safeties, just not ones for the Rem 700. Ed LaPour in Bremerton, WA also makes a three position safety for Mausers. He runs ads in various gun magazines.
Gentry is still making Mauser safeties, just not ones for the Rem 700. Ed LaPour in Bremerton, WA also makes a three position safety for Mausers. He runs ads in various gun magazines.