bolt action from scratch?.. looking for advice

I would think a Kar98a - a '98 design but with small ring - would be suitable if made out of modern steel like 4140. Also, Frank DeHaas pointed out that the Husqvarna actions advertised as modernized Mausers were modernized '96s, not a '98 pattern.
 
yeah.. i was listening to someone else mention the small ring 98s as well.. that does seem like the best choice for an action to save weight while still safely being able to manage the pressure of .308, so i really like that idea for an action...

i heard its possible, though much, much more time consuming to use a jig with progressively finer files to file the raceways into the action... has anyone seen someone do this before?... it would take quite a while though

anyway though.. its strange someone mentioned EDM machining... i was actually debating whether or not i should get into that as a replacement to mechanical machining for metal parts... ive been thinking about setting up a small three or four axis machine
 
Last edited:
i heard its possible, though much, much more time consuming to use a jig with progressively finer files to file the raceways into the action... has anyone seen someone do this before?... it would take quite a while though
Click to expand...
:eek:

You’re still young. Give it a try ...:D

Kidding, kidding ... well, mostly.
Seriously though, specialty tools are time savers, or "get into places easier" thingies. Check out some of the improvised munitions our military has come across over the years. Some of it is truly amazing ... what someone can do with hand tools and a LOT of time.
 
my question what what benefits does this have vs not broaching?
Click to expand...

If you want the raceways you need to cut them.

They are cut by broaching since there is not actually any other practical way to cut long grooves on the inside of a cylinder the length of the cylinder.

you might be able to figure out a way to EDM them, but that s likely to be just as hard to do on a hobby budget as broaching.

And the 'cut and advance' method described earlier is what a shaper does.

They are rarely used outside of small hobby use.

A cut rifling machine is similar in concept.
 
i guess what i was really trying to ask about broaching vs "fat bolt".. is almost every bolt action ive seen the internals for so far have been broached.. so when i think of a bolt action receiver, i automatically imagine broached raceways... so im looking for a description, or photos of what exactly the "fat bolt" style is?
 
i get the impression that "fat bolt" just means the lugs on the bolt do not extend beyond the radius of the body of the bolt, meaning the locking lugs in the receiver would have to stick out from the inside wall of the receiver, rather than being flush, and raceways cut the entire length of the receiver...

it seems this would be just as durable, just as reliable, but there would be less material in the receiver, and therefor a lighter receiver? is this true? or am i missing something?
 
BTW, the wisecrack about you being young. It wasn’t meant as an insult... more along the lines of you have more time than most here.
As you get older, saving time becomes more important if you’re trying to get stuff accomplished, ya know. ;) And the more time you save on work, the more you have to waste on fun stuff:D.

I’ve actually used the "file method" more-or-less. Prototyping a race car part ... it required a channel running down a bored hole in a block of aluminum. I drilled a hole where the channel would be, bored the hole, and then squared it up with files and a jig. It took forever and was a real PITA, and that was 4" long and in T6, but it got done with the tools I had at hand... wouldn’t even think about doing it in steel. That’s what real machinists and money are for.;)
I’m just a hobbyist.
 
as long as i had a flat file the right size.. some jig so it would only move perfectly back and forth, and the project itself was pretty secure, i might be able to use some sort of recipcrocating device to do most the work
 
Last edited:
all that being said.. a small broach for the size i need isnt that expensive... not expensive enough to go through all that trouble... i should just a get a metal rod to fit the inside of the receiver, cut a channel for the broach to fit in, and use a shop press to push it through.. just isnt worth the extra time and effort to try to use files when this is still a sub-$100 setup not including the shop press which i already have
 
On the fat bolt, you're basically right. Weatherby utilizes this design on either their Mark IV or Mark V, can't remember which one, maybe both. The T/C Venture also has a fat bolt and I've seen a couple of 50 BMG actions that use this. Just google the image for the T/C Venture and you'll see it beside a Remington bolt. Machining the recess for the locking lugs could be tricky I guess but shouldn't be a horrible undertaking.
 
Go for it.I would not buy anything real expensive,though.I'm thinking you are hungry to learn and gain some experience,and you have the confidence to try.
So it is the destination vs journey thing.There is value in learning to put a good .700 or so dia hole through 6 in of steel.If you are going to use a mandrel to drive a keyway broach through,you will get to mill the mandrel.

Now,truly not to be negative,but I have enough respect to tell you where some quicksand is:With a broach such as a keyway broach,typically you would be broaching through a pulley or gear or something.Say an inch,maybe two in thickness.That will determine how much material is in the chip,and how many cutter teeth are engaged in your workpiece.Behind each cutting edge is a gullet.That is all the chip clearance you have.The chip is captive through the cut.If you are broaching a length of 5 or 6 inches,an issue is going to be the gullet will not have the room to accomodate the chip.You cannot back up and clear the chips.This same lesson about chips filling up the cutter will be important later when you are chambering.It does not work out with a chamber reamer,either,if you do not clear the chips along the way.

Another concern with a long cut using a keyway broach,with a shorter cut,only so many teeth are engaged,3 or 4,maybe 5.Each adds its own cutter pressure you will overcome with the press.With a 6 in cut,you may be pulling 10 chips.There is a limit to how much force your broach will take.

I think the length of cut and broaching limitations helped inspire the multi-lug fat bolt design,and later the receiver extension design of the Stoner AR.

I suggest you study the Weatherby fat bolt,and look close at the AR design.Study the Savage 110 and the Rem 700,See how a bolt can be fabricated by pinning a bolt head on a piece of tubing.Look at the Tubbs rifle.Then there are a number of benchrest actions that may give you some good ideas.

Some more good practice,if you would like to gain experience,find a Yugo M-48 Mauser action surplus,Then thread and chamber a .308 barrel for it.Put it together,go to the range and I suspect you will find it does not feed real well.You will gain some knowledge and experience and understanding of mag box stacking,feed rails,followers,etc.It will be a great education.,and it will be valuable as you machine and shape your own rails.

For practice,you could build a .22 or even a 32 H+R bolt gun .I think a .303 brit bbl would be about the right bore dia.

Frank De Haas has some single shot rifle action designs for the home machinist.

I hope you make chips and build something!!Don't get discouraged if you take a few detours or find a dead end.Rilke wrote something about striving to be "Defeated by greater and greater things"

Or,you could buy a Savage or Remington action and build a 308 that would shoot real well.


Keep us posted as you learn,I'm open to having you teach me something.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top