Bolt Action Carbine?

C

CMGibson

New member
Well I wonder if a bolt action carbine might be better than a lever action functionally? Do they make one with a short barrel that has at least an 8 round capacity? Price range not much more than 5-600 dollars? Fewer malfunctions than a lever action? Thanks!
 
From what I can tell, most of the LA malfunctions occur in the pistol calibers trying to feed Special brass. All of the Rifle Cartridge LA Rifles seem to work 100%.
 
Unless you have a lemon you will get very few malfunctions from a lever. BUT... There is no denying that levers are the most complex of all repeating actions and the most likely to fail. Bolt guns are the least complex, and the least likely to fail. Levers are also the heaviest of all actions while bolt actions are the lightest.

I've always felt a bolt action carbine make more sense than a lever action. Once mastered they are about equal in aimed rapid fire. They are lighter and more compact, much more accurate, come in better chamberings, can be reloaded faster, and are much less expensive.

There are several companies that make bolt carbines and if the rifle you want is not offered in a carbine length it is simple enough to have a barrel shortened. The 8 round capacity is more difficult, but there are a few that now are making detachable magazine versions that hold that many. My Winchesters and Weatherby's hold 5+1. I feel that 6 rounds is more than enough for me and I don't have to deal with a magazine hanging down and getting in the way.
 
I've always felt a bolt action carbine make more sense than a lever action. Once mastered they are about equal in aimed rapid fire. They are lighter and more compact, much more accurate, come in better chamberings, can be reloaded faster, and are much less expensive.
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I think that pretty much sums things up.

Levers are also the heaviest of all actions while bolt actions are the lightest.
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Did you get that reversed? My heaviest levers are lighter than my lightest bolt guns.


Functionally, I think the bolt guns are generally much more robust and reliable. I also usually find them to be more accurate and geared towards shooting at longer ranges.

When it comes to shooting them, they are also more controllable and shootable, especially when shot rapidly. The problem with the lever guns in this respect is, working the lever tends to want to pull the gun out of your shoulder, where working the bolt is more natural at keeping it in your shoulder during the stroke.

With either of them, you need to practice properly to get the most out of them. You have to work the actions forcefully and positively if you dont want problems. Again though, the problem with the levers here is, the harder you work them, the more they want to come out of your shoulder as you go.

One thing I have noticed with the bolt guns is, the farther we have come from the bolt gun being the main military arm, the less people seem to understand their practical use. For me, the "best" bolt gun has a proper length (LOP) stock, good iron sights, a straight (as opposed to bent) bolt, a stripper guide and a good supply of strippers, and a usable shooting sling. Unfortunately, most modern commercial guns lack all of the above.

A plus to the lever guns is, they tend to still have a proper length stock, and can be fitted with decent irons, it just falls apart with the lever, mediocre accuracy as the range opens up, and slow and cumbersome reloads.
 
How about a CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39 just get some extra mags and your set. I love mine.
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"Snubby" Bolt Gun? :)

I didn't ask him about it, but I saw some guy at the range last weekend shooting a bolt gun (sounded like a .30cal :confused::rolleyes:) that I swear had a <16" heavy bull barrel and a target stock. Weird as all hell. He was using a belled scope (i.e. not 1x) and getting respectable groups of 1 MOA at a hundred yards. Bet his POI doesn't change as the barrel heats, either :D

Despite the weird profile (looked like a non-flared Blunderbuss) it looked handy as hell, and he shot it well. With the heavy barrel, it probably weighed and balanced similar to a full size rifle. If you don't need max velocities for long ranges, I don't see why a properly-crowned short barrel wouldn't work for you.

TCB
 
bolt carbine

There are lots of examples of bolt carbines: the defunct Rem 600 and 660, the current Rem Model 7, the Savage Scout, Ruger Scout, defunct Ruger Frontier, others too.

Only the Ruger Scout has a hi cap box. (10 rds). Well, that said, a Lee/Enfield jungle carbine holds ten also.

All comments regards other calibers and simplicity, +1.

My Savage scout, in .308 is one of my favorites and a real candidate for ideal GP rifle.
 
Picked up my Ruger GSR last week and have not had a chance to shoot it yet. Overall I love the balance and feel of the weapon - looking forward to putting an EOTech w/magnifier on the scout rail and trying it out this week or next.
 
Levers are also the heaviest of all actions while bolt actions are the lightest.

Did you get that reversed? My heaviest levers are lighter than my lightest bolt guns.
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Have you ever actually put them on a scale or are you just guessing. We have had it burned into out brains for so long that levers are light compact rifles that most just accept it as fact without actually verifying.

A standard Marlin 30-30 weighs 7-7.5 lbs before optics. Depends on the exact model, barrel length and when they were made. Stock thickness has varied a lot over the last 100 years on Marlins. A Winchester 94 is about 6.75 lbs.

Many standard size bolt rifles made by Ruger, Remington, Savage and Tikka are between 6-6.5 lbs. The heaviest magnum chamberings are only around 7.5 lbs in most bolt rifles. Some, Weatherby's for example are much heavier, but are the exception. The carbine versions such as the model 7's and rifles such as Kimbers are in the 5 lb range. You cannot get a lever in a pistol caliber that light.

Bolt actions have the option of lightweight aftermarket stocks that is not a option on levers. With an aftermarket stock my 300 mag weighs less with a scope and mounts on it than my Marlin 30-30 weighs with only irons. They were exactly the same weight when the 300 was in the factory stock. Coming in at around 7.25 lbs my Marlin 30-30's are the heaviest rifles I own. If I were to put a scope on them they would be well over 8 lbs. My heaviest bolt rifle is only 7 lbs 14 oz including scope and mounts. Some of my 308's are under 6 lbs after mounting optics.
 
Have you ever actually put them on a scale or are you just guessing. We have had it burned into out brains for so long that levers are light compact rifles that most just accept it as fact without actually verifying.
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I just weighed two of my levers, both wood stocked Winchesters (I dont have any Marlins). The Trapper is just under 6 pounds, and my 50's era 94 is 6.5 pounds. My lightest bolt, a synthetic stocked Ruger 357/77 weighs 7 pounds. My next lightest bolts are a half pound heavier, one wears a wood stock, one a synthetic with a scope. The rest are heavier yet. All the guns I weighed are stock guns with iron sights and no add ons (except for the one with the scope).

Im not saying you cant get any of them lighter, Im sure you can, and with both types depending on what furniture you put on them. Im just going by what I have, had, and used over the years, and the bolts were always heavier,or at the very least, seemed that way.
 
Howa made(don't know if they still do) a 20" carbine in several calibers. There is now a kit allowing use of a proprietary 8-10 removeable magazine on these carbines. Remington also made some 20" carbines(youth guns) that could have the stock changed out and a modified magwell(as used on some of the tactical rifles) making the use of higher capacity magazines possible.
 
I not even sure what you mean with this question. No bolt action will shoot as fast as a lever action. As a light saddle or truck gun a LA is very hard to beat. The problem seems to be that folks want to hang all manner stuff on a LA trying to make it as accurate as a BA. I know I can shoot 10 rounds through my '73 before you could shoot 5 rounds through a BA but you can likely shoot a 50 cent piece at 100 yards and I likely can't.
 
No bolt action will shoot as fast as a lever action.
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Never say never. ;)

I know I can shoot 10 rounds through my '73 before you could shoot 5 rounds through a BA but you can likely shoot a 50 cent piece at 100 yards and I likely can't.
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How about ten rounds of a "rifle" caliber, and we make it 200 yards. :D
 
"I know I can shoot 10 rounds through my '73 before you could shoot 5 rounds through a BA"


Are you a wagering man? :rolleyes: "I Bet" I can beat ya... :D

Most folks have just never seen a boltgun shot by someone who knows how to work a bolt.

I'd bring a Krag carbine to that gunfight, BTW. I can even top up my mag with the bolt closed... :)


Willie

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A straight pull bolt action should be fast enough for you !
The term 'carbine ' has been around for a few hundred years a a military term. It has meant a shorter than rifle gun typically 6" shorter .That's whether they started out with a 48" barrel or 30". The Krag had a carbine version and the 1903 started out with a rifle 30" and a carbine 24" .They dropped the rifle version quickly.Our Civil War used many different carbines .
 
none that I know of in stock configuration. enfields come with 10 round mags and they are fairly simple to chop and bubba if you have one that has little historical significance and with conversion kits available in 45/70(7 round cap),, 7.62x39(takes AK mags) and 45 ACP(1911 mags) in with 16 inch barrels they would make a very lightweight bolt action carbine. however if I was going to go with a carbine my first choice would be an AR15 with a Beretta storm in second place.
 
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