Jhans, as I said in my second reply on this topic, the upper end mark ii's are nice rifles. Anytime someone on this website speaks ill of savage, guys like you and a couple others in this thread jump all over them. You guys are not paying attention to what he asked for when he stated, "my budget is limited". With an msrp of $484, do you believe the btvs falls into his price range? Personally, I doubt that it does. If telling the honest truth about my experiences with the lower end savage mark ii's makes me a "hater" then so be it. I listened to guys like you when I made my purchase. I wish there had been a guy like me to tell me the rest of the story.