Body Armor

[freedash22]

Shot armor panel

Digging through my things, looks like I still have the .45 Magtech FMJ slug and the piece of kevlar we shot a year ago with my FNP-45. This piece of kevlar came from a second chance vest made in the late 80's (Kevlar 29?). The backing was a sandbag. 30 layers overall and not 1 layer penetrated. The black marks on the kevlar are where the bullets landed, we shot this a total of 5 times from both sides. Not a single layer penetrated whatsoever. If you look closely, the slug is a bit dented and the rifling marks from the barrel are visible.
Now this is a .45 ACP, probably a Level IIa-II threat, certainly not IIIa but for what I paid for, this was a neat experience and a good vest.

P.S.
Sorry for the blurry picture, my only camera is from my phone.

 

[Brit]

I have vest from my Son (Security Company) he wears one all the time. He thinks at 77 YOA I have a lot of time yet to help him out!

When I do ATM Guarding jobs, I wear the vest, under my shirt.

Normal armed patrol on sites, no, it is in the vehicle.

Not so sure how bright that is. But in ATM robbery's, the BGs tend to arrive shooting (so we have been told) if they drive up, they can exit with long guns, I have a Glock 19, spare G17 magazine. If they use the Bank Building for a rush, most likely I will have 20 yards to draw and fire. They most likely will have handguns.

At this time (3 years) we just being there alert, and armed, seems to have been enough. Not totally banking on it though.

Had an older Vest, at a Police range, stopped all the 9mm we shot at it. Except for Frangible, made by the International Cartridge Company. 9mm 100g. Do not know velocity, I would say it was fast.

Two rounds, right through both sides, little flakes of Kevlar floating in the air!

This ammo was introduced for plate shooting. No ricochets.

 

[manta49]

If i was going to war yes. If i feel the need to sit in the house armed wearing body armor its time to move. If i feel the need to wear body armor going to the shop again its time to move. Things are not bad are they. I think it depends on the threat I know one person here that wearing body armor saved his life but he had being warned that a terrorist organization was planing to kill him. So in his case i think it was sensible to take extra precautions.

 

[Habaz72]

I've always practiced the "Mozambique Drill" where you practice shooting two qucik rounds center of mass then an aimed shot to the head (ocular cavity). Even if the bad guy is wearing armor the two to the chest will slow him down enough and/or stun him to allow you to place that aimed head shot.

I think buying a 5.7 or looking for penetrator rounds also means a round could drastically over penetrate if the bad guy weren't wearing armor. Then you're talking about rounds going through walls and into the streets or neighbor's house.

And the money you save on body armor or a 5.7 can be spent on range time to work on the drill.

 

[dayman]

I'd think if you're worried about being attacked by people wearing armor you should either start carrying a rifle/shotgun, or re-evaluate your career.

It would be hard - in a defensive situation - to make use of Mozambique style drills. People move fast, and one would assume that a robber that thought to bring armor would also have a gun. Plus, as civilians we can't start shooting until we're pretty sure that our lives/safety (or property in some states) are in danger.
"2 to the chest 1 through the ocular cavity" sounds great on the internet, but starts to fall apart when you look at the actual logistics.

 

[tomrkba]

There is no point until you're standing on a two way range. Suddenly, you will wish you had it.

I think people should build up their kits for that "militia thing". Their kit should include armor. Unfortunately, just about everyone, including myself, neglects the whole militia thing.

People spend thousands of dollars on rifles, optics, mags, and ammo for the purposes of self-defense. The odds of using a rifle in a self-defense situation are extremely low (just look at the stats). Yet, somehow, the rifle is "needed", yet a $600 Level IIIA vest is deemed "not needed". What kind of upside down world do we live in? You can have a Level IIIA vest or plate carrier on in under 10 seconds if you have it setup properly. If you have warning that something is happening there is no reason not to put it on.

 

[dayman]

I absolutely agree that armor is a worthwhile purchase - that's why buy it.
But the conversation had shifted from the pros/cons of having armor to ways that you can overcome other people wearing it.

I think it's worth having, but few enough people do that I don't feel it's necessary for most of us to spend a lot of time worrying about what to do if you're attacked by other people wearing it. Even if it wouldn't kill them I'd think getting punched in the vest by a few bullets would be enough to make most people stop what they're doing and look for cover.

 

[9mm]

Yes, keep it on flat surface. I do not think body armor "expires" unless exposed to elements and under constant use.. I keep mine on a flat surface in my bed room. I am interested in a vest for plate carriers but CBA to spend $400 a plate but then again that is a life time investment, just like buying two guns. In these times its not a bad idea. Esp if you are in a big city.

 

[johnelmore]

Am I the only one who hates body armor? Every single piece of body armor I have worn has been uncomfortable and distracting from thin II-A setups made of Dyneema to the heavier III-A varieties. All of them slow you down. Before making a decision on body armor go to a range and test out your accuracy with and without. Run a 100 meter dash with and without.

I tend to think body armor has probably caused a few fatalities...

 

[tomrkba]

Before making a decision on body armor go to a range and test out your accuracy with and without. Run a 100 meter dash with and without.

I tend to think body armor has probably caused a few fatalities...

Being in shape helps, as does a positive attitude. Not everything in this world is made for your convenience. Like a handgun, it's meant to be comforting, not comfortable. Buy a personal force screen when they finally come out.

 

[9mm]

I don't know what everyone is talking about, but body armor does not slow you down that much, the benifits are worth it.

 

[SHE3PDOG]

The 5.7 cartridge itself is not necessarily armor penetrating, unless it is specifically the SS190. The SS190 does have heavy restrictions though, just like any other AP round. The ones you are sold are not the SS190 unless they have the black tip and are labeled as AP.

In other words, save your money if you only want it because you think that it will penetrate someone's body armor. It is a sweet gun if you want it for other purposes though.

 

[johnelmore]

Trust me on this one. Most vests weigh at least 5 pounds if not more. They do not breathe and they generate the same heat as a winter jacket. Even if you are in great shape and well conditioned thats still 5 lbs to slow you down.

Plates weigh like bowling balls. One ball on the back and one on the front. They have actually been around forever and the military didnt use them until the last several years. They used them mainly because of the politics and media not because they felt it was a good idea.

Study after study for the last 200 years say the same thing. Carry around more then 35 lbs and you become less effective as a foot soldier. That hasnt changed. Wearing 40 lbs of armor on top of your usual load is suicide. Would it make sense to carry two bowling balls through a battlefield? I guess it makes sense to those who believe two heavy plates covering up a small portion of your body will make you a better soldier or Marine.

 

[Dwight55]

When we were in RVN, . . . only time we had any "vest" was a flak jacket, . . . and for the most part, I only wore mine on convoy. I think I remember wearing it up in the MG tower, . . . but that was 45 years ago, . . .

I still have one here, . . . bought it for our veteran parades, . . . almost new looking.

SHTF, . . . it's close enough to grab, . . . and for the protection it would afford, . . . I would wear it.

Now body armor 24/7, . . . that's a different story.

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Before making a decision on body armor go to a range and test out your accuracy with and without. Run a 100 meter dash with and without.

I tend to think body armor has probably caused a few fatalities...

Being in shape helps, as does a positive attitude. Not everything in this world is made for your convenience. Like a handgun, it's meant to be comforting, not comfortable. Buy a personal force screen when they finally come out.

Not everything about ballistic vests is comfortable, no doubt, but the classic Clint Smith speech about a handgun meant to be comforting, not comfortable, just means that Clint had apparently made some poor carry choices.

Will the weight of a vest slow you down? Sure, so will the weight of your gun, shoes, and pants...and anything else weighing you down. So if you are after ultimate speed, then maybe going naked with some good lightweight running shoes (because tender feet will slow you down more than feet protected in lightweight running shoes) might be your best option, but then what protections do you have?

There is a balance with all your choices. Choose wisely for what fits and suits your situation.

I would rather be in body armor in a gunfight than not. One thing is certain. Even when I was in top shape, I could not outrun a bullet.

 

[johnelmore]

Well if you understand the disadvantages of armor then let us know what you are looking for.

When Im overseas I use a Point Blank Nato Front Opening. I prefer this style vest because it can be donned and doffed fast. Since its front opening I usually open the front to vent it out during off time. It has wrap around side protection and a collar. If you could only have one tactical vest thats what I would get. You wont be able to put on a side opening vest or that pig plate carrier with such speed.

 

[JimPage]

"Am I the only one who hates body armor? Every single piece of body armor I have worn has been uncomfortable and distracting from thin II-A setups made of Dyneema to the heavier III-A varieties. All of them slow you down. Before making a decision on body armor go to a range and test out your accuracy with and without. Run a 100 meter dash with and without.

I tend to think body armor has probably caused a few fatalities... "

I'm willing to bet that the body armor is a lot more comfortable than a bullet in the chest!

 

[kinoons]

The 5.7 cartridge itself is not necessarily armor penetrating, unless it is specifically the SS190. The SS190 does have heavy restrictions though, just like any other AP round. The ones you are sold are not the SS190 unless they have the black tip and are labeled as AP.

In other words, save your money if you only want it because you think that it will penetrate someone's body armor. It is a sweet gun if you want it for other purposes though.

Not entirely true. While the ss195 and ss197 ammo does not go through soft armor, some of the protector series rounds offered by EA will defeat soft body armor.

 

[Don P]

Personally I keep a vest in the nightstand where I keep my gun and light, and have always seen it as a good "just in case" thing to have around. It's nothing fancy, but it will supposidly stop most anything that comes out of a pistol. Should I ever need to leave my room in a emergency situation - get to the kids, etc. - it takes all of 5 seconds to put on.

Vests are rated for different calibers, so your thinking of supposedly stopping most anything doesn't hold water. The vest I own that I used while working for a armored car company is rated to resist a 357 mag.
Seems you are betting your life on that vest that will supposedly stop most anything.
Sound of breaking/crashing glass, startling the ever lovin crap out of you, tossing on a vest, grab the light and grab the gun after opening the draw/door on the stand, really? Why only put it on when having to leave the room?

 

[JerryM]

I am not interested in body armor. Considering the probability of an attack it is not worth the trouble and discomfort to me.
Jerry