Body Armor and Handguns

I recall seeing footage of two well-equipped (body armor--chest and head protection--and full auto AKs) bank robbers engaged in a street war with regular cops and SWAT units. Hundreds of rounds were disharged, and several hit one of the BGs wearing body armor. You could tell when the BG was hit, but he kept on walking. Someone finally got smart (or lucky) and took the guy down with a leg shot.

Oleg--I came across a website advertising, er, "alternative" ammo for shotguns (dragon's breath rounds, etc.), and I think he also advertised DS penetrators for 12/20ga. But, since such ammo is illegal for us civvies to have in FL, I didn't bother saving the URL.

But I'm sure it's out there.

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"And a Cartridge in a Bare Tree..."
 
I have read about .223 being safer indoor than 9mm FMJs from varioius sources, but cannot be sure if they all tell about the same (FBI) tests. I have also heard that to work properly (tumble when hit) .223 bullet must travel fast enough. That could mean that if you shoot comparably slow .223 loads (or from a very short barrel) the bullet doesn't tumble or fragment, and could therefore be more dangerous wall penetrator than a fast load.

As a rule, rifle caliber ammo penetrates body armor much better than handgun ammo, and faster loads and FMJs better than slower loads and JHPs. For example a fullpower 9mm is much better penetrator than a fullpower .45 ACP with same kind of bullet, since the energy compared to bullets face area is much higher in 9mm.

Anyway, if you don't get results with torso hits aim for the head. If that is too difficult a hit to stomach/pelvis area can also be effective.

Ossi
 
KowHunter,

Although we have strayed well and truly into rifle country here, the only .223 test I have any kind of info on is the one used by the SWAT evaluation team on the superb new HK53 carbine which has a super short 8.3 inch barrel. If they were in any way available to citizens, this would be my ultimate house gun they seem better even than the great M4 but at $4000 for a semi auto only if you can get one I think I'll have to wait. The gun was tested with 10% gelatin covered by first a kevlar panel (approx 12" penetration) and then a bullet proof vest (threat level IIA ??). The article simply said that with LEO only tactical frangible ammo penetration was less than a 115gr 9mm JHP, nothing about FMJ, and that cops should be dropping their Rem pumps with dangerously overpenetrating OO Buck for these short .223's. Personally I'd want to try it on dry wall and compressed chip board, beyond that I'm stuck, but an answer to this would be nice.

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Mike H
 
Muzzle blast was not commented on, but during the night fire drills the gun had no more flash than a full length M-16, it is equipped with a super new flash suppressor. The pics I have show a 2-3 inch flame at the moment of firing and nothing more, looks very tame.

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Mike H
 
Muzzle blast was not commented on, but during the night fire drills the gun had no more flash than a full length M-16, it is equipped with a super new flash suppressor. The pics I have show a 2-3 inch flame at the moment of firing and nothing more, looks very tame.

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Mike H
 
Muzzle blast was not commented on, but during the night fire drills the gun had no more flash than a full length M-16, it is equipped with a super new flash suppressor. The pics I have show a 2-3 inch flame at the moment of firing and nothing more, looks very tame.

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Mike H
 
Muzzle blast was not commented on, but during the night fire drills the gun had no more flash than a full length M-16, it is equipped with a super new flash suppressor. The pics I have show a 2-3 inch flame at the moment of firing and nothing more, looks very tame.

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Mike H
 
The M546 APERS (Beehive) flechette round was developed to stop "Human wave" assaults in the Korean war. It did not see operational use until the Vietnam War, in the conflict it proved highly effective at stopping troops in the open. The reasons it was so effective was the 8000 8 grain flechettes ejected on fuze function. Combine the mass of flechettes with the explosive force of open the projectile bent a large portion of the payload. These bent flechettes had a tendency to fish hook in the body causing extreme wounds. Hence, shotgun deleivered flechettes, not having the MV and bending involved with ejection, would probably not have the effects that artillery and rocket delivered munitions. The fact you cann't find the penterators except on X-ray I am not sure about, but the same could also be said for about almost all shot, bullets and frag.
 
"Head shots" "Head shots"
............... G.G. Liddy

Just a demented question, but....wot wud be result of epoxying a lil piece of drill bit in a hollow point point?
 
Lavan, that would have ZERO extra drilling effect. I know, I know, everyone always talks about how a 9mm slug is spinning at 69,000 rpm it ought to cut like a drill, and consequently some ammo makers have put teeth on the leading edge of the bullet, and advertise it's "buzz-saw" effect.
Bullsh!t.
Sure, the bullet is spinning at 69,000 rpm, but it is also moving forward extremely fast. How far forward how fast? Well, 1150 feet per second or so. And the rifling twist might be 1 in 12, so the bullet, although spinning fast, only makes one revolution/one cut, as it moves one foot forwards.
It isn't the rotation that kills you, it's that fact that a little chunk of stuff is perforating your body very quickly.
-Kframe
 
About 2 months ago I did a test on some body armor with some .223 rounds. I put 4 panels of level IIIA armor on top on each other and blasted it with my AR-15 (55gr FMJ) from 5 yards away. I found that the rounds spalled and fragmented just like they were supposed to and got stopped in the third IIIA panel. Kinda bulky to wear 3 or 4 vests though, and I doubt a heavier .30 cal slug would have been stopped.
 
KFrame totally agree with your observations additionally the follwong apply:
Bullet or projectile spin is independant of MV. If a projo spins 1 time for ever 12 inches of foward movement, it doesn't matter if it is travelling 1 fps or 1000 fps for ever foot of travel it spins once. RPM on the otherhand is is directly proportional to velocity the faster the velocity the faster the projo covers any given distance hence a higher RPM. So although the projo starts at 69000 rpms, as it go down range the RPM decreases. For the mentioned 69000 (given 1-12) rpm to be achieved and maintained the projo would have to travel over 13 miles with no loss of velocity
 
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