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Bobbing Hammer...Bad Idea???
- Thread starter Southern Shooter
- Start date
No ultra-light plastic hammers, but über-light Titanium hammers (Taurus M85 Ultra lite), and firing pins (ala Ruger SR1911).Why no plastic über-light hammers on a gun?
Or, by reducing the weight of the hammer ala bobbing......You could increase speed more by increasing spring strength...
I wish someone would explain to me...that is give an example of, or a realistic scenario where a gun with a spurless hammer but with single action capability becomes unintentionally cocked. None of my spurless guns has ever been in that state and I am at a loss to come up with a scenario that would result in that happening. Unless there is something that I have overlooked, removing the single action notch is solution to something that is not going to happen, or at least less often than being struck by lightning or attacked by a Great White.
Did it fire reliable before you cut the spur off? Did you change the mainspring?I have a S&W model 36 that I had bobbed....I took about half of the spur off. Turned out to be a bad idea. The bobbed hammer failed to ignite the majority of rounds that were loaded. I tried all kinds of factory fresh ammunition and it was completely random as to which cylinder failed to fire. Wound up having to put a new full hammer back on.
Yes, it was completely reliable before I bobbed the hammer...and has been 100% reliable again after replacing the bobbed hammer with new "complete" hammer. I did not replace the mainspring before or after.
dahermit said:give an example of, or a realistic scenario where a gun with a spurless hammer but with single action capability becomes unintentionally cocked.
You take someone shooting. The only thing they know about revolvers is what they've seen in the movies, where revolvers are cocked. So, it doesn't even occur to you to they might not even know to shoot DA, and in the blink of an eye they manage to somehow get it cocked.
Or...you're not home when your spouse hears a knock in the night. She grabs your bobbed HD revolver from the nightstand, and, under stress, immediately manages to get it cocked.
Skadoosh said:Yes, it was completely reliable before I bobbed the hammer...and has been 100% reliable again after replacing the bobbed hammer with new "complete" hammer. I did not replace the mainspring before or after.
Is your M36 stock? IOW, has it ever had an action job (by a pro)? If there's resistance in the hammer travel, it'll be even more evident once it gets bobbed. IMHO, it's a good idea to bob a hammer as part of a good action job.
Having a hammer snag on a draw in a self defense scenario could ruin your whole day.
I only have two revolvers, a Smith and Wesson 638 Bodyguard snub nosed revolver that has a shrouded hammer and can be shot either double action or single action and is snag free.
My other revolver is a Ruger SP101 snub nose in 38/357 Magnum and I did bob the hammer on that one, did not affect reliability one bit and I can still shoot it single action if I want to, at the range with the handgun safely pointed downrange at the target, I pull the trigger back just enough to bring the hammer back where I can get my finger on my weak hand between the hammer and the frame and then pull the hammer back until it is fully cocked.
I shoot double action mostly, in a defensive situation you will probably only run double action, however it is nice to have and practice single action.
I only have two revolvers, a Smith and Wesson 638 Bodyguard snub nosed revolver that has a shrouded hammer and can be shot either double action or single action and is snag free.
My other revolver is a Ruger SP101 snub nose in 38/357 Magnum and I did bob the hammer on that one, did not affect reliability one bit and I can still shoot it single action if I want to, at the range with the handgun safely pointed downrange at the target, I pull the trigger back just enough to bring the hammer back where I can get my finger on my weak hand between the hammer and the frame and then pull the hammer back until it is fully cocked.
I shoot double action mostly, in a defensive situation you will probably only run double action, however it is nice to have and practice single action.
having the hammer snag on a draw can ruin your whole day...so can having the gun not fire. And if it doesn't fire, a smooth snag free draw is kind of negated, now isn't it?
I'm not a fan of bobbed hammer guns, and won't pay for one, unless it came that way from the factory. Not because bobbing the hammer always renders the gun unreliable, but becuase it might.
Different ammo has different primer hardness/sensitivity. Factory guns are set up to ignite the wide range likely to be encountered. I'm sure there is a certain amount of "extra" force factored in, just in case. Change the hammer, and you have no idea if you have removed this margin, or not.
The gun may work reliably for ages, until it does not, when an extra hard primer happens to be under the hammer. Or it might start misfiring right away. No way to tell, that I can see. Your gun, your call. Not for me, thanks.
I have had one bobbed hammer gun, and it would reliably fire, 3-4 rounds out of six. And not the same ones every time, either. You do what you want, and so will I, and we'll get along fine.
Remember that if you ever decide to sell the gun, to get full value, you'll need a buyer who thinks like you do, because to me, you butchered it....
I'm not a fan of bobbed hammer guns, and won't pay for one, unless it came that way from the factory. Not because bobbing the hammer always renders the gun unreliable, but becuase it might.
Different ammo has different primer hardness/sensitivity. Factory guns are set up to ignite the wide range likely to be encountered. I'm sure there is a certain amount of "extra" force factored in, just in case. Change the hammer, and you have no idea if you have removed this margin, or not.
The gun may work reliably for ages, until it does not, when an extra hard primer happens to be under the hammer. Or it might start misfiring right away. No way to tell, that I can see. Your gun, your call. Not for me, thanks.
I have had one bobbed hammer gun, and it would reliably fire, 3-4 rounds out of six. And not the same ones every time, either. You do what you want, and so will I, and we'll get along fine.
Remember that if you ever decide to sell the gun, to get full value, you'll need a buyer who thinks like you do, because to me, you butchered it....
With my 13-3, on which I installed a bobbed replacement hammer, I have shot approximately 2500 rounds of Georgia Arms .38, 500 rounds of Georgia Arms .357, and maybe 50 rounds of Buffalo Bore light .357 without an ignition failure.
(I tend to buy ammo in lots of 500 or 1000, in the Georgia Heat ammo cans.)
I have also shot occasional range ammo (typically, generic 148 wadcutters). Again, no problems igniting primers.
YMMV.
(I tend to buy ammo in lots of 500 or 1000, in the Georgia Heat ammo cans.)
I have also shot occasional range ammo (typically, generic 148 wadcutters). Again, no problems igniting primers.
YMMV.
"I'm not a fan of bobbed hammer guns, and won't pay for one, unless it came that way from the factory. Not because bobbing the hammer always renders the gun unreliable, but becuase it might." Quote by 44 AMP
Extremely good and interesting quote 44 AMP, and I respect your opinion and the opinion of others who feel the same way.
Before bobbing the hammer on my Ruger SP101 snub nosed revolver to make it snag free, I noticed that Ruger had come out with the same model with the hammer bobbed,,, You have got me thinking and I "Thank You",,,I will call Ruger now to see if the hammer or springs are changed in any way and ask them if my revolver should be changed over to their system or not,,, or is safe to carry and depend on as is.
Extremely good and interesting quote 44 AMP, and I respect your opinion and the opinion of others who feel the same way.
Before bobbing the hammer on my Ruger SP101 snub nosed revolver to make it snag free, I noticed that Ruger had come out with the same model with the hammer bobbed,,, You have got me thinking and I "Thank You",,,I will call Ruger now to see if the hammer or springs are changed in any way and ask them if my revolver should be changed over to their system or not,,, or is safe to carry and depend on as is.
spacecoast
New member
You have got me thinking and I "Thank You",,,I will call Ruger now to see if the hammer or springs are changed in any way and ask them if my revolver should be changed over to their system or not
I bet they are not (at least for S&W)... otherwise Brownells and others would be selling two versions of the mainspring, which they do not. To my knowledge the only variants they sell are those that are reduced from original strength for reduced trigger pull weight, which makes it easier for those of us who need them for competition (combined with Federal primers).
OldMarksman
Staff
And the greater the mass, the harder it will be to get the hammer up to speed.Firing a primer requires momentum - mass times velocity.
Just finished talking to Ruger Customer Service on the East Coast, the technician at first said there was no change in the springs and the only change to the hammer was the bobbing no change in hammer material, and that the bobbed hammer should not affect reliability at all.
Ruger does not sell bobbed hammers to the general public so they can do the installation themselves,,,a Ruger Revolver owner can send the firearm in and the charge is about $80 to install the bobbed hammer.
However then we began to discuss DA/SA and SA only and the technician said that when installing a bobbed hammer Ruger does change the pistol over to DA only and in doing so he said there might be a small spring change.
After asking him, the technician said even without the change to DA only and the minor spring change that the handgun should be reliable with the hammer bobbed.
I have been known to have jumped off cliffs forgetting my parachute,,,and the old saying "Discretion is the Better Part of Valor" comes to mind,,,it might be better to call and talk to the manufacturer before you get out the file!
Ruger does not sell bobbed hammers to the general public so they can do the installation themselves,,,a Ruger Revolver owner can send the firearm in and the charge is about $80 to install the bobbed hammer.
However then we began to discuss DA/SA and SA only and the technician said that when installing a bobbed hammer Ruger does change the pistol over to DA only and in doing so he said there might be a small spring change.
After asking him, the technician said even without the change to DA only and the minor spring change that the handgun should be reliable with the hammer bobbed.
I have been known to have jumped off cliffs forgetting my parachute,,,and the old saying "Discretion is the Better Part of Valor" comes to mind,,,it might be better to call and talk to the manufacturer before you get out the file!
If the factory puts in a bobbed hammer, and the factory says its all right, then the factory stands behind it, and should the gun have trouble, then the factory will fix it. I'm good with that.
If you bob the hammer, then its your issue, if there is on. And if the gun goes on the market, as a buyer, all I know is someone bobbed the hammer, and that someone isn't around to call and fix it if there is an issue down the road.
I understand how guns work pretty well, but I'm not set up to make engineering calculations like the factory is. If they decide the stock spring is still the right one with a bobbed hammer, I won't argue with that. I'm counting on them to have made the calculations and to produce a sound, reliable product. That's what I'm paying for. And I'm also counting on then to stand behind what they sell. That's another thing I'm paying for. SO, from the factory, I', ok with that.
Used, done by who knows, and also with no idea what, if anything else was done, that, I'm really leary about. Some folks will bob the hammer AND put in light springs, and sell if it has problems. USED, its buyer beware, and I am...I think you ought to be too.
If you bob the hammer, then its your issue, if there is on. And if the gun goes on the market, as a buyer, all I know is someone bobbed the hammer, and that someone isn't around to call and fix it if there is an issue down the road.
I understand how guns work pretty well, but I'm not set up to make engineering calculations like the factory is. If they decide the stock spring is still the right one with a bobbed hammer, I won't argue with that. I'm counting on them to have made the calculations and to produce a sound, reliable product. That's what I'm paying for. And I'm also counting on then to stand behind what they sell. That's another thing I'm paying for. SO, from the factory, I', ok with that.
Used, done by who knows, and also with no idea what, if anything else was done, that, I'm really leary about. Some folks will bob the hammer AND put in light springs, and sell if it has problems. USED, its buyer beware, and I am...I think you ought to be too.
Yet again, why bob the original hammer when you can remove and store the original, and install a dedicated bobbed hammer?
This eliminates any potential resale issues (simply return the gun to stock form prior to listing for sale), and allows one to go back to the stock hammer if there are issues with the bobbed hammer.
Much ado about nothing...
This eliminates any potential resale issues (simply return the gun to stock form prior to listing for sale), and allows one to go back to the stock hammer if there are issues with the bobbed hammer.
Much ado about nothing...
I suspect that their "engineering calculations" only involves taking a spring from the box that came from their spring supplier and putting it into the gun...regardless if it is a spurless hammer or the standard spurred one.I understand how guns work pretty well, but I'm not set up to make engineering calculations like the factory is. If they decide the stock spring is still the right one with a bobbed hammer, I won't argue with that. I'm counting on them to have made the calculations and to produce a sound, reliable product.
Since this is a matter of personal taste- to each his own. For me, I think it is a BAD idea. I would turn the spur into a rowel. You may need to have a weldor help on this. The round rowel won't hang up on your clothes but you can still cock the hammer and shoot it single action if you wish- the best of both worlds.
In his book, "No Second Place Winner", Jordan seemed to consider the spur somewhat of a rowel without any addition. He cautioned that when fast drawing, the spur was a source of injury to the shooter's hand.Since this is a matter of personal taste- to each his own. For me, I think it is a BAD idea. I would turn the spur into a rowel. You may need to have a weldor help on this. The round rowel won't hang up on your clothes but you can still cock the hammer and shoot it single action if you wish- the best of both worlds.
Not so much personal taste, as it is an indication of critical thinking skills. Likelihood of snagging on clothing vs. likelihood of needing the spur because it will help rotate a baulky cylinder, or the need to perform the mystical, rare (and never realistically defined), "long" shot with a defensive revolver.Since this is a matter of personal taste- to each his own.
Ralph G. Briscoe
New member
I had the hammer of my Chief's special bobbed back in the 70's...for the usual reason. Never a bit of trouble with light strikes (stock springs). When my wife began shooting several years ago it became her bedside gun. It's a safety issue--I wouldn't want her to be tempted to cock the hammer and have to safely decock it in a stress situation. I have a 642 and 442...both hammerless....but she likes the weight of the Chief--less recoil.