Blazers: DEFECTIVE!

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Doug.38PR

Moderator
I just got back from the range after going through about 2 boxes of Blazers LRN with one of my Official Police .38 specials. At 7 yards, I had a "good enough" grouping but worse than usual. If I had shot at a person's chest, I would have hit his chest at that range, however if I was aiming at his heart, it's possible I would have hit a lung instead.

I took the gun to 50 yards and took aim at some dirt clod or stick or some other little target at the end of the range against the dirt pile. Usually I can either hit the little dirt clod or whatever or at least stay around it within a pretty good radius. However, I used Blazers and I was all over the place.

At first I thought the bore of my gun was worn or something. I put a Blazer LRN bullet and cartridge and stuck it in the muzzel end of my gun and it went in all the way to the cartridge. I always thought Blazer LRN looked a bit odd compared to the other LRN rounds from say Winchester or Remington but never could quite put my finger on it. Then I realized it. It wasn't my gun bore, it was the bullet. Blazer LRN .38s aren't wide enough in diameter at the base of the lead bullet to spin along the rifling in the barrel. They don't have the ring around the edge of the base of the bullet like Winchester, Remington and other brands. I put a STJHP Winchester down the muzzel and the bullet only went in about 3/4ths of the way. I put a Winchester LRN down the muzzel and it went in about 4/5ths of the way until it hit the ring around the base of the bullet. I put a Blazer LRN and Winchester LRN in the muzzel of my other Official Police and my Highway Patrolman and got the same results. I put a few Winchester STJHP's (yes they are expensive but these were about a year and a half old and had been sitting in the closet for about that long) and fired at 50 yards and they got me a good grouping. Winchester LRN in the past has performed excellently as well.

Bottom line: Blazers LRN are no good as a range bullet....or even as a defense round unless your within 10 yards of a person....and even then, a hostage would be in big trouble if you had to save them with a good marked shot with a Blazer in your gun. No wonder they are so cheap, you get what you pay for.
 
Lead bullets do have some expansion at the base to help seal the bore and keep the gasses behind the bullets......

could be the Blazers alloy are too hard and dont have enough base expansion to seal the bore keeping the gases behind the bullets

the harder the bullet alloy the more psi required to expand the base of the bullet.....

you ought to e-mail Blazer and see what they say...

either need to increase the dimension or use an alloy for the LRN that is a tad softer

a lot of bullets are made with increased hardness so the dont get dented and nicked during shipping
 
If you have access to a bullet-puller (i.e. a kinetic hammer-type bullet puller) and a micrometer you might consider pulling apart up to 3 rounds of Blazer and measuring the base of the bullet. .357-.358 should be right. Colt barrels, IIRC, were made to a .356 diameter (or .3565) a tad tighter than S&W's .
 
If you have access to a bullet-puller (i.e. a kinetic hammer-type bullet puller) and a micrometer you might consider pulling apart up to 3 rounds of Blazer and measuring the base of the bullet. .357-.358 should be right. Colt barrels, IIRC, were made to a .356 diameter (or .3565) a tad tighter than S&W's .
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No I don't have one. But, I was shooting a Colt yesterday when all this was going on.
 
Have your chambers and forcing cone miked. If the chamber is a wee bit smaller than the forcing cone, couple that with perhaps a harder alloy, i can see the bullet being squeezed down *after* obturating and never springing back out for a good grip on the rifling.

Could be voids, too... bad castings. No real way to check for that, i don't believe.
 
I haven't noticed anything different when I shoot the CCI's at the range. My accuracy has been pretty much the same, whether I am shooting the CCI, WWB, S&B or Wolf for that matter. Just offering my experiences, not suggestions. Good luck.
 
The Blazers in the alluminum (they're silver in color anyway) seem to have less velocity than the brass Blazers...... not sure if that has anything to do with your problem but it's something I've noticed and now rather than save some cash on the cheaper Blazers, I use the brass now. (talking .45acp).

Same for my 44 mag, those cheaper Blazers stink, they won't even cycle the action in my Ruger Deerfield 99/44.... so I've been buying the brass for that as well.
 
What kind of problems 625?

I'm just curious what others have noticed outside of my experience that they seem under powered.
 
I've been using Blazers in .45, 9mm, and .38 Spl. for over a decade without any problems, and I'd guess that amounts to well over 10,000 rounds.
 
You get what you pay for. As with guns, the same with ammo. You want to buy cheap ammo that is cheap due to the fact that they can crank out millions of rounds, in cheaper materials, then you get what you buy.

To bring it to the "geeks" here, you can buy an emerson stereo system for $150 that looks impressive, but will break. Or you can a Sony system for $300 that won't and puts out great sound (just an example, I know the emerson can be bought for $150 but the Sony is four times as much, and worth it).

As with any mass produced processes, you are going to get bad lots every now and then. With any hand made product, or product that is not made in mass production, the costs are higher but the expectation of it working better is there.

I've used Blazer, Wolf, and other cheaper ammos. I've had a couple of bad hits, non-fires, bad extractions. Oh well, why should I be angry with a couple of bad rounds out of hundreds of rounds fired?

Wayne
 
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I've not had an ammo problem with Blazer aluminum rounds with 1000s of rounds and 4 different Glocks.

I just shot the NTI with Blazer with no problems. If the 38 is off, well - I haven't tried it.
 
Other than burning a little dirty, I never had or seen a problem w/ Blazers.

I suspect the only "problems" with Blazer ammo the staff has at 625's range is, they don't want to take the extra step of separating aluminum Blazer cases from the reloadable brass they are scavenging off the ground. I'll also bet they don't allow the shooters to collect their brass either. :rolleyes:
 
Given some 50-60K of Blazers I have shot, there have been less than 10 problematic rounds. Most were primer issues. A couple were not quite round, I don't know why, but as a result, they would not chamber.

I have had many times the number of problems in shooting Winchester white box and white box target loads with the extra plating.

With Blazer, I have never seen an upside down slug seated in a case, but in shooting far fewer rounds of other brands, I have seen this with UMC ammo and Hydrashoks.

So based on my own experiences, I have trouble believing that all Blazer LRN ammo is defective. With that said, all my experience has been with jacketed ammo.
 
USP45usp said:
You get what you pay for. As with guns, the same with ammo. You want to buy cheap ammo that is cheap due to the fact that they can crank out millions of rounds, in cheaper materials, then you get what you buy.

To bring it to the "geeks" here, you can buy an emerson stereo system for $150 that looks impressive, but will break. Or you can a Sony system for $300 that won't and puts out great sound (just an example, I know the emerson can be bought for $150 but the Sony is four times as much, and worth it).

As with any mass produced processes, you are going to get bad lots every now and then. With any hand made product, or product that is not made in mass production, the costs are higher but the expectation of it working better is there.
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USP45,

I wish that was always the case. There are many inexpensive products out there that are very good and many expensive products out there that are crap. Don't be fooled by pricing as supply and demand are rarely controlled by quality alone. I will now back this up...

Sony has been in serious trouble lately. Samsung, which used to be a piece of crap in my opinion, is making some major moves. Samsung had a very cheap beand image and low quality standards. Samsung phones are far superior to Sony phones and their high end TVs are considered as good if not better than Sony. I like Sony but I will buy the best product out there for my budget regardless of brand. Hitachi (many people don't even know about this company) supposedly has the best Plasma TVs out there.

Lets talk about cars now. I have a 02 BMW M3. It is an awesome performance driving machine... when it works properly. The engines are hand built but there have been 2 recalls so far. My wife's Honda Accord starts everytime you turn the key as long you you put gas in it, don't drain the battery completely, and change the oil every so often. Will I show her my tail lights every time we drag race (not that this ever happens mind you), sure... provided my car is functioning.

On to restaurants. I could go to PF Chang's for some fake chinese food or find some cheap hole in the wall that serves great food for a good price. You just pay for the atmosphere at PF Changs.

What I am saying is figure out what you are really looking for and get that product regardless of brand. I love my M3, despite all the problems, but that is because BMW is paying to fix it. If I had to keep shelling out lots of bucks to keep the car on the road, especially after spending over $50k on the car, I wouldn't say I got what I paid for. To make a long story short, get the best product you can at the price you are willing to spend.

As for CCI Blazers... They are the dirtiest rounds I have ever fired. The residue get all over my hands and dirties the guns faster than any other round I have ever shot. I look for sales and buy large quantities when I find good ammo such as Winchester White Box or UMC.
 
stephen426,

The point was not to get into the finer points of major electronics but to show that cheaper products have a tendency to fail moreso then the more expensive products.

I wrongly used electronics in order to prove my point, of which, I apologize.

My point was that if you purchase, and use, cheaper types of ammo such as blazer and wolf, don't come onto the boards and bitch about if a couple of rounds didn't fire, feed, or extract. We all know that buying cheap give us what we buy, cheap. Alumimum castings, bullets seated too high, too low, it's all in the lot. Machines aren't perfect and they go out of sink every now and then and you get bad lots. Cheap ammo isn't going to have the top of the line powder in which they are loaded with, and the bullets may, or mostly not, be speer or another major brand.

Not that you have don't have the right or the allowance to come onto the boards to express your one time dealing with the ammo used, but think about it, you chose to buy cheap ammo, expected it to fire without problems, and then bitch when it doesn't.

I use CCI, Blazer, and wolf. When I get a bad round or when it clogs up my gas tubes, I just clean the gun, and keep on going. I know that the ammo will cause the tubes to clog up faster, I know that I can get a strike without firing, and I know that the ammo isn't the best in the world. Yet, if I chose to use this ammo, knowing this, then it's my fault and yes, I still use the ammo because it is so cheap.

Wayne

*I have a feeling that I'm being handed a rope, and knowing me, I will end up hanging myself with it.
 
I used some blazer aluminum tonight at a match and it stunk FTE totally blew it for me I may try the Blazer brass but will tell everyone to stay away for aluminum
 
Doug,

Contact Blazer. They'll probably want a sample of the ammo, and they'll probably try to make it right.
 
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