Blackhawk Serpa Holster = Negligent Discharge?

This Texan has a set of BIG Brass Balls for being honest and trying to share with others his mistake, instead of getting a lawyer and blaming the gun/holster. :cool: S#*T happens, and he acted as a real man and is warning others to be cautious. I would rather go plinking with him than a few of the people in Law Enforcement I know (and unfortunatly have to qualify with 2x a year), who act like cowboys on the range. At least he understands that we play with fire (and are therefore subject to burns), and are not living in an HBO movie.

Thanks for the warning Tex! ;)
 
I dont have a serpa, nor do I have any experience with them, so this is a just conjecture, but it seems that it puts similar finger movements, with added pressure, in the same vicinity and direction during the draw.

It looks like he might have kept the same pressure needed to release the gun, on the holster after release, up to and into the trigger as he drew.

Looks like an accumulating combination of unfortunate choices and decisions on his part. A good reinforcing lesson for the rest of us.
 
I do not understand civilians using retention holsters.

This could have happened with any holster, of course, but the retention holsters just seem to increase the chances of this with no particular use to the civilian, particularly those of us who carry concealed.
 
Him putting his finger on the trigger during draw is a training problem, not a holster problem. I too am happy he shared, and he's ok.
 
The video won't play on my computer, so I can't comment on what I didn't see there. However, one simple reason for having any kind of retention device on your holster is to keep from losing your pistol. That can happen if you're in certain positions or are doing something very active.
 
However, one simple reason for having any kind of retention device on your holster is to keep from losing your pistol. That can happen if you're in certain positions or are doing something very active.
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Yes, that's why I have well-made kydex and leather holsters that are specific to the gun in the holster. I'm not talking about crap Uncle Mike's stuff. I've never had a gun "fall out" of a quality holster. The retention devices (thumb drive, Serpa, etc) are to prevent someone else from getting your gun out of your holster in a scuffle. I repeat: they are more risk than reward for a civilian concealed carry scenario.
 
WOW!! It hurt to watch that. I practice quick draw all the time with 2 shots at a time and shoot a glock wit no safety. Also out of a serpa holster with the release on the outside. Dont like the idea of the thumb release.

My leg is tellin me to quit doin that!!;)
 
Mike Irwin: Why? Because it is posted in the General Handguns forum, or some other reason? Just curious.

I agree, it needs to be seen.
 
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455923&page=2

theres the thread i started last night when this whole incident went down.

The full story is that "tex" was at the range filming a video and after practicing with the glock and the thumb-drive holster he switched to the 1911 and the serpa. He had already done quite a few "takes" the one where the incident occurs was said to be the last one he was going to do that day. When he drew he accidentally pushed down with his thumb, disengaging the safety. He said that the weapon hesitated to release from the holster and he pushed harder with his finger and pulled a bit harder so it would come out. The combination of the safety off, the extra pressure on the trigger area, and the curled finger made a bad mixture and caused what you see.


now for a bit of comedy. Tex isnt actually from Texas, rather Illinois. He has taken courses at "tactical response" and practices defensive shooting, yet his state has no CCW right : ) I talk to him daily and let it be known that he probably wont live this one down without a good amount of ridicule : )
 
I watched this earlier and have gone back. I am not seeing the release issue that Tex refers to in the video. Usually when folks fail to release their holsters, they get a draw that yanks up on the holster and this doesn't show up. As best as I can tell, whatever problems he may or may not have had with the holster are long gone by the time the gun clears the holster and you can plainly seem him put his finger inside the trigger guard and the gun then discharging. If he had a problem with the holster, it may have mixed up his draw cadence, but otherwise, the holster seems to be a non-issue here.
 
The full story is that "tex" was at the range filming a video and after practicing with the glock and the thumb-drive holster he switched to the 1911 and the serpa. He had already done quite a few "takes" the one where the incident occurs was said to be the last one he was going to do that day. When he drew he accidentally pushed down with his thumb, disengaging the safety. He said that the weapon hesitated to release from the holster and he pushed harder with his finger and pulled a bit harder so it would come out. The combination of the safety off, the extra pressure on the trigger area, and the curled finger made a bad mixture and caused what you see.


now for a bit of comedy. Tex isnt actually from Texas, rather Illinois. He has taken courses at "tactical response" and practices defensive shooting, yet his state has no CCW right : ) I talk to him daily and let it be known that he probably wont live this one down without a good amount of ridicule : )
 
I thank the OP for sharing this and the shooter for being man enough to place the blame where the blame is due.
The real blame goes to placing his trigger finger on the trigger before the gun was clear of his body and on the target. You can see his finger go into the trigger guard before the gun has cleared the holster.
He's lucky he still has a leg.
I will also give him credit for the safe way he handled the gun after the accidental discharge he did not fire the gun a second time and kept the gun pointed in a safe manner and set it down. How many of us could do the same.
I have done this same exercise many times over the years but first do it with an empty gun 20 or 30 times and I keep it slow. The reason I stopped doing it was for the same reason. I shot myself.
Not like he did but I had one come back off of the back stop and hit me in the stomach. It didn’t puncture the skin but hurt like heck and burnt the skin. Had I been hit in the eye it probably would have been another outcome.
Talking to experienced people that go into harm’s way it’s not speed that wins. Its training what you shoot the way you carry and make sure the first round count. If you look at most shootings the innocent party does not get the first shot off in many cases. I don’t know the percentage. But quick draw is for the old western movies and Jerry Miculek.
 
Go back to the video at the start of this thread. Go to the slo-mo section. His finger WAS straight. But in trying to "go fast", he applied more muscle and ended up with enough curl to crank one off in his damn leg.
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This sounds right.
 
i have to thank you guys. i have posted this on various other forums and the replies have ranged from good to horrible. while there are always a few bad apples i have found that The Firing Line is one of the best forums out there as far as helpfulness, kindness, and a non know-it-all or my-way-or-the-highway attitude. Its the reason i most frequent The Firing Line whether just lerking or posting this forum is my choice. thanks guys.
 
Rugermisticness said:
I think his knee was farther than the target was Fingers out of the trigger gaurd
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He acknowledges this in his comments, and he also honestly calls it an ND rather than an AD.

Personally, I think it shows a poorly designed holster. I have never even considered one of that type so I'm not well familiar with it, but from his description it seems it requires two operations to release the firearm ... and with a 1911 each of the two involved devices is positioned such as to create the possibility of unintentionally actuated a fire control.

The thumb slipped and released the thumb safety. So he WAS carrying in Condition 1, which is correct with a 1911. The firearm WAS safed in the holster.

Then the trigger finger slipped into the trigger guard window upon drawing. That should not happen. If the release button is properly located, the finger will end up properly positioned in an extended orientation above the trigger guard and trigger as the gun leaves the holster. With this one, the location seems to position the trigger finger in line with the trigger.

I'll have to see if my local gun shop carries those holsters. I think I'll stick with quality leather holsters from name makers.
 
This incident illustrates the propensity for negligent/accidental discharges by weapons with light trigger pulls. The tried and proven DA/SA trigger action still found on Walther AS pistols inhibit things like this from happening.
 
I agree with Jim. Part of the blame rests on the shooter, and part of the blame rests on the design. I'm impressed with the shooter for taking responsibility.

While I'm sure the Serpa release is safe when used correctly and fully operational, what concerns me is when it isn't. I've seen a few stuck guns, and removing them is a harrowing experience: basically, you're jamming the release down as hard as you can with your fingertip in the trigger guard. No thanks.
 
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