Black Powder versus Substitutes

The powder measures measure "grain equivalent". some where back in the past some one poured a weighed grain of powder into a container and said that is a grain equivalent. That volume has remained the same since. If you have a selection of powder measurers, it is unlikely that they will all measure exactly the same. I have 5 and there is 2 or 3 gr equivalent units difference between them.
Don't make no never mind. Call it what you like, just load the same volume for Pyrodex as you do for real black.
 
It really works out !!!

The powder measures measure "grain equivalent". some where back in the past some one poured a weighed grain of powder into a container and said that is a grain equivalent.
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Because a balance scale was not handy or practical. I have one but it won't fit in my possible's bag. ..... ;)
If any of my many draduated precision measures are right on the mark, it's purly by chance. As few grains off either way, will not effect performance but in snokeless powder, can be deadly ....... :eek:

Be Safe !!!
 
Back to the same old argument... So let's just assume the little pocket measures are Volume per Voume compareitive decices and we can simply measure a dipper for a dipper.Black Powder vs Pyrodex.
As was stated you can't get enough BP or Pyrodex into the chamber to harm it so by following the owners manual load instructions, then you have loaded the revolver safely.
My "safe" load of 30 gr of BP in a .44 caliber round Lead Ball load is OK and my "safe" .36 Caliber load of .22 gr is likewise a safe paremeter to adhere to. Both loads work with BP and Pyrodex. These loads work with both Open Top and Remington style revolvers.
To shoot 777, I just reduce my loads by 15%.
ZVP
 
I weigh all my loads on a beam scale and put them in little vials. Usually carry
about 100 with me. Very handy and accurate.
 
Trial and error

I have used approx (when I say approx) I mean the spout on a copper powder flask when you hold the lever and turn it upside down and release it, most spouts for a 44 c will hold between 27 g to 30 g . At 25 feet you will blow a bigger hole through a 2X4 w/goex than Pyrodex. You might not get it thru the 2X4 w/pyrodex. Real bp is more powerful. The substitutes are safer!!!! I have not tried it yet, but I have heard that Triple 7 is the best. I don't know

WBH
 
I've always thought that in part, the sub's are safer because they have a higher ignition temperature. In theory that would mean that it would require a hotter or more substantial spark to accidentally set them off.
Just look at why black powder is used to prime a flint lock and how much easier it is to set it off with sparks compared to the sub powders.
That illustrates how under some circumstances the sub powders could be considered to be safer.
 
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Using 777

I have been using 777 for going on 8 years now, I switched from preformed pellets to loose and droped down from 100 to 86 grains so I could get better shot placement with my inline. 777 is less messy to clean up and I have no troubles. When setting my load I started with 100 grains loose and went down and found the load 86 grains to 370 grain maxi ball, zeroed at 120 yards.
 
I thought HH nailed it with his reply.
I have been shooting muzzle loaders for nearly 45 years.
In all that time I never knew loading one was as complicated as this thread makes it out to be. :rolleyes:
Should I start over? Or take up knitting? :confused:
 
Substitutes are also safer because they are not explosive while real blackpowder is an explosive, meaning blackpowder can explode when impacted by an object.
 
The reason I posted substitutes are safer is because to sell Real BP- you have to have a small explosive licence / you have to have an approved vault that will pass inspectorsand forms have to be filled out. Insurance on my bldg will not let me carry it. If I don't have insurance and someone stumbles across the floor-I'm #*%&@! To order substitutes requires none of this and insurance covers it. But, I do have to pay an explosive fee so you have to order a bunch to offset that fee. Well, we all know that Real BP is more volatile and so it will pop a hotter ball unless I haven't shot one yet. Most of our biz is only c/b guns and most want substitutes. Pyrodexfff is the most economical and popular---Pioneer is good. But, again, I heard that Trip 7 is the best

WBH
 
Pioneer is good. But, again, I heard that Trip 7 is the best
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Well, it will be a long time before I can look for any better but that is only because I have too much 777. One shooting group I deal with, likes BlackHorn-209 and they claim it's better than 777. Have not read that much, on line about BlackHorn or the new WhiteHots. AS mentioned before, there are always trade-offs between BP and the subs. .... :)


Be Safe !!!
 
From all I've heard 777 is too finicky. At twice the price of Pyrodex I know I'm not going to try it. A percussion cap wont set Blackhorn off.
 
Hold on. Blackhorn is used for/ modern inline muzzle loaders w 209 caps. I was thinking that for cap and ball revolvers that the best substitute for them is Triple7fff. Never tried it or sold it. I do carry triple7 ff but never fired it in pistol.

WBH
 
I never could understand the reason for wanting to shoot a Black Powder
gun with anything but Black Powder. I thought that was the whole reason:confused:
 
I never could understand the reason for wanting to shoot a Black Powder
gun with anything but Black Powder. I thought that was the whole reason
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Me too. It kinda defeats the purpose. I use Pyro because it's all I can get but if I had a choice it would be real bp.
 
why use pyrodex?

well have yet to see a store that has a shelf filled with black powder.

to get black powder its a minimum purchase of 25 pounds at a typical 20/pound, plus state sales tax, plus shipping nad handling.
 
The Totum Pole in Union ,SC sells Goex by the can at less than $30.00. I bought some a year ago but it is only 30 miles away from me. Great store if you get a chance to happen by. They got everything:)
WBH
 
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