Black Hawk Down

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Full Metal Jacket

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I couldn't decide where to post this, so i decided this would be the closest. Anyways...

Does anyone know exactly what made pres. clinton pull U.S. Marines, Army Rangers and Delta force out of Somalia?
Was it because of the "black hawk down" events in Mogadishu? I heard the final straw was the somalis dragging a u.s. marine body through the streets.
Anyone know for sure?
Also, what weapons did Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart (R.I.P.) use when they went back to rescue pilot Mike Durant? In the movie black hawk down they look like they had M14's, M4's, M9 Beretta, and a M1911.
thanks

R.I.P. Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart for sacrificing their lives to save one.
R.I.P. to all marines, delta force, and rangers who died fighting in somalia.
 
Get the book "Blackhawk Down" by Mark Bowden and the companion "The Battle of Mogadishu" by Eversmann and Schilling. Both are great reads and will provide detail to the movie.

-PB
 
you could find all the awnsers you want it mark bowden's book of the same name. it's a great read. i'm not positive which one but i think it was shughart was specifically mentioned as using an m14 with i believe ap rounds. he was unhappy with the performance because they would just zip right through the somilies(sp) and have little immedate effect.
 
Get the book "Blackhawk Down" by Mark Bowden and the companion "The Battle of Mogadishu" by Eversmann and Schilling. Both are great reads and will provide detail to the movie.

-PB
 
If you ever get the chance to hear Michael Durant speak, don't miss it. He does an outstanding presentation. Last time I heard him there was about 500-600 people in the audiance. For almost 3 hours you could have heard a pin drop. There wasn't even a whisper in the room. Without a doubt one of the most engaging speakers I've ever heard. He tells you a lot that wasn't in either the book or the movie. He has a book "In the Company of Heros" that's great.
 
Echo the sentiments. God bless the women and men who protect us. Where would we be without the military? On are own doesn't sound good.
 
Read BHD and it is a great read. Probably one of the top 10 best realistic action type books I have ever read.

Because of the Mog disaster, General Garrison retired, and the Rangers and Delta's were pulled from Somalia, when it was PC to do so. Typical Clinton move.

Shugard used a vietnam era M14 modified, and was universally acknowledged as the smartest man in the unit. His 7.62mm rifle took down BGs with one shot COM while the AR15's armed with the tungsten AR round passed right through the BGs with little trauma damage.

Gordon was armed with an M4 with Tricon optical sites.

Most delta's carried the .45 1911A1 as a sidearm. In fact they practiced with it so much you could tell who was delta by the calluses on the web between forefinger and thumbs.
 
Get a copy of the movie "Blackhawk Down" and study the combat scenes particularly showing close tanfe use of rifles and pistols. You can learn a lot of very useful techniques from them.
 
from: http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov23/default23.asp

He picked up his weapon, an MP-5K, a little German automatic rifle that fired 9mm rounds.

.....

The crew chiefs carried M-16s. Durant told him where they were kept, and Shughart stepped into the craft, rummaged around and returned with both rifles. He handed Durant Gordon's weapon, a CAR-15 automatic rifle loaded and ready to fire. He didn't say what had happened to Gordon.
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Only in America (well, technically in Somalia) would two men with families give their lives to save one. They deserve the medal of honor more than anyone else in history with a few exceptions, like Audie Murphy.
 
I think a good flame thrower would have helped them out of their mess. It was a hell of a mess for sure. When you are dealing with people who aren't afraid to die, its never a pretty situation. As for the armor piercing rounds, I thought they might be beneficial as they could penetrate and kill the people behind the primary target. When you have a mob like that, you need all the firepower you can get. Call in an air strike!

The US has become the world's police but not many countries appreciate all that we do. Although I am appreciative of our military, many operations are in the name of expanding influence or increasing wealth. Lets not confuse that with defending our country.
 
The answer to your question: "Does anyone know exactly what made pres. clinton pull U.S. Marines, Army Rangers and Delta force out of Somalia?" is indeed just an opinion, . . . my opinion, . . .

The cheesy, dirtbag, low life, son of un married parents, military hating, jerk, finally did what he wanted to do: he embarassed our military beyond belief by sending them on an impossible mission, against impossible odds, at an impossible time, in an impossible situation.

By the way, he learned it from his peanut picking predecessor.

A friend of mine told me that when El Dirtbag went to Germany and wound up on one of the bases there for a "photo shoot" troop inspection: his secret service people put out the word and enforced the action that none of our troops he would review could have a functional weapon. Armorers were not allowed to issue bolts or ammo while he was on base, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Shughart and Gordon were truly courageous from the point they volunteered to go in. From the account it was obvious the odds were that they wouldn't make it.
 
I don't know about you guys but that s**t brings tears to my eyes seeing those guys in the movie.. To know that actually happened. makes you think
 
To answer your question, "Yes." President Clinton. Why not write him a letter and ask him? You never know.
That movie had me hopping around in my seat, I was never more stressed at a movie since seeing "The Deer Hunter."
 
A friend of mine told me that when El Dirtbag went to Germany and wound up on one of the bases there for a "photo shoot" troop inspection: his secret service people put out the word and enforced the action that none of our troops he would review could have a functional weapon. Armorers were not allowed to issue bolts or ammo while he was on base, . . .
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I wouldn't be surprised if they did that with any president. Their job is to keep him from harm, regardless of what they thought the attitude might of been, unless pres planned on going shooting with them, that makes perfect sense to me.
 
Ironically the guy who made the statements about the 5.56 effectiveness, or lack there of, Paul Howe is now retired and teaches tactical carbine courses. He has stated that the book went a bit over board in the reciting of what he said.
 
The book Black Hawk Down isn't perfect, but it is very clear that the journalist writing it (Bowden) was actually making a sincere effort to depict events in a fair and accurate way. It is sad that being able to say such a thing is surprising, but such is life.

My take on the whole situation is this:

We pulled out because Clinton chickened out. That's the bottom line. Task Force Ranger suffered serious casualties, and Clinton didn't have the balls to cope with the natural consequences of warfare. The sick irony is that it was Clinton who had the mission in Somalia changed from guarding food shipments (Bush I), to trying to re-make Somali society at gunpoint. There would have been no Battle of Mogadishu but for Clinton's change in the mission.

You can look at the Somalia mess as a failure to reconcile ends, means and resources. The desired end-state was a stable Somali state. The means chosen was to take out Aideed. But this means would not accomplish the desired end state even if it was successfully carried out; you could argue that it would really have no impact of consequence at all to get rid of Aideed. After all, Aideed went away later without us, and Somalia is still the same chaotic hell hole. And on top of that, the resources allocated Task Force Ranger weren't really adequate to implement the means chosen anyway, hence their needlessly high casualties.

It is fashionable to bash Clinton on the political right. This is a case where I believe it is totally deserved. He was a strategic imbecille AND a coward.
 
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