black finish on S&W revolvers

V

VanSmooth

Inactive
Hello

I have a question and I wonder if you can help me. What is the shiny black finish on the old S&W (e.g. the model 29) revolvers? A gunsmith told me that it’s a high polished surface which is blued after polishing. Another gunsmith told me that it looks like powder-coat painted or treated with varnish. This information is important for me to refinish an old gun.

Thank you for your time
 
Model 29s are blued steel. However, I have seen some blued revolvers that were treated aftermarket with a hard black chrome or nickel.
 
The older S&Ws have a nice rust blue on the polished steel. During WWII, S&W used a parkerized finish on their K frame Victory Models, but that's probably not what you're talking about.

I don't know what the current finishes are, but I understand that there are several and all have a claim of wear resitance and superior protection from rust.

I understand that environmental concerns have negatively impacted the old rust bluing process due to the caustic salts used in the process and many manufacturers no longer use it. In any even, rust blueing wore fast in a leather holster and really didn't provice much protection from rust.

Having polished and blued several firearms while working part time for gunsmith in the 70s, I can tell you that to do it correctly is a labor intensive process and the polishing of a weapon is almost an art form to itself. When done properly, it adds to the luster of a rust blued weapon. With manufacturers looking at the bottom line, labor and time are enemies and anything that will accomplish the goal cheaper is de rigeuer for the CEO and the board.
 
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I'm saying they are high polished BEFORE the bluing and polished after the bluing. Probably better and more expensive methods used back in the day. I think this one of mine is 1976 IIRC. And no you do not see this kind of finish laying in the new gun counters today. Most are a dull black look that is called plastic.:D

Good luck with your project and let us know how it turns out.

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Model 29s were not rust blued. They were polished and hot tank blued.
Bluing can not be "polished." It would be removed by polishing.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions

my particular gun is that one:
7062_5.jpg

I have to replace the barrel and it would be great to have a finish nearly as shiny.

Once I sanded and cold blued CVA DIY-kit pistol and I was surprised how well it went. But I recognize that in the case of the S&W revolver to high polish a piece of metal is a really different thing. Nevertheless I play with the thought. I have access to a high performance rotary tool and could buy polishing equipment for it. If I try it, I will tell you how it went.

In general: When a piece of metal polished that it is as shiny as a mirror, and someone blues it, will a shiny black surface result?
 
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Hm, that's a pity...

Hot bluing is to complicated to do for myself...

But what do you think: Is the polish, which can be achieved with a Chicago pneumatics grinder enough in combination with a professional hot bluing ion order to look similar to the real deal?
 
Is the polish, which can be achieved with a Chicago pneumatics grinder enough in combination with a professional hot bluing ion order to look similar to the real deal?
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Shortly after WW II Bob Brownell did an article on gun polishing in which he quoted someone from S&W (sorry, can't recall name and I'm currently far away from my copy of the book);

Gist of it was, "it takes a minimum of fifteen years training before a worker can complete the more complicated steps of polishing a revolver, and until then he is incapable of doing the job properly no matter how hard he tries".

Personally I think this is unrealistic, today companies such as Turnbull do a splendid job of metal polishing, and I doubt the workers are trained for fifteen years before being allowed to work on customer guns. But the point is, metal polishing as seen on older S&Ws and Colts requires a very high degree of skill and knowledge, which is why it is not cheap.

There were no "magic ingredients" in the bluing tanks used at the S&W and Colt factories. The "magic" (if that is the right word) was in the skill and patience of the metal polishers.
 
Prior to about 1978 or so, Smith & Wesson guns were not blued in a hot salts bath (bluing tanks)as is currently done. They were done in an oven using a process called Carbonia bluing. It produces, IMO, a superior color & depth of color than any hot salts bath. Colt used a similar process. Thanks to the EPA, very few highly custom gun builders do that type of work any longer. Even with the Carbonia process, high quality finishes begin with surface prep and that is a skill which does take a long time indeed to master. Smith & Wesson used buffing wheels custom shaped to the piece being finished and those wheels were proprietary so 2nd party workers do not have access to that equipment.

Bruce
 
So, let me ask. What exactly are you trying to do here? Is there a problem with barrel on the revolver in the picture? Is it you don't like the gold? If you are swapping a barrel, can the gunsmith you are working with for that job help with the bluing?

I don't think you are going to get away with a bench grinder and jeweler's rouge. Cold blue isn't going to do it.
 
@ wsp & jglsprings

The gun was in process of being deactivated for a collector but the process stopped. Now the barrel is useless but the rest is still fine.
I talked to a famous gun smith and he told me that he could do the job (or can get the job done) but it would cost a fortune.

I see that it is unlikely to achieve a perfect result. But as it a surface thing I will give it a try myself. Maybe it gets similar pretty even if it is far away from perfect
 
The gun was in process of being deactivated for a collector but the process stopped. Now the barrel is useless but the rest is still fine.
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I am having difficuly processsing the idiocy of the logic suggested by this statement.

Someone was trying to "de-mil" (for lack of a better word) a functioning revolver and rendered the barrel useless? What kind of idiot collector was this? (rhetorical question)

I sure hope you didn't pay much for this thing. "Commemorative" models have a very limited draw to begin with, and one that has a replacement barrel that so obviously does not match it's frame and cylinder is essentially a shooter.
 
@ orionengnr

^^ Yes, I know... It's a legal thing. Similar to the situation in England, where it is difficult to own real fire weapon and people buy deactivated stuff, in Switzerland some people are not allowed to own fire weapons.

But I am^^. It wasn't expensive. I didn't buy it, because it's limited Edition. I bought it because it’s black. All newer models are 6** models made of stainless steel. And the barrel was no big blowback as I ever wanted to have any gun with polygonal rifling. And this particular one is a nice candidate.
 
DO NOT TRY TO POLISH A NEW BARREL YOURSELF.
I can guarantee it will not end well.
Pay whatever it takes to have the gun professionally re-finished to match on the barrel & frame.

What are you saying about polygonal rifling?
That has nothing to do with your gun, it never had polygonal rifling & a replacement barrel (if you can find one) won't either.

There are several Smith & Wessons still made in blued versions, you may have made an error in buying what you did for the reason you state.
Denis
 
@ DPris

I fail to see the difficulties in polishing. I don't think that I will achieve a perfect result but something shiny black will somehow result I hope^^

I let a polygonal rifling barrel produce custom by my gunsmith. I am ok with it that it won't be too authentic.

Aaaargh... You are right :eek:
I haven't found them on my research. But now after I read your post I searched again and found out that you are right. But I am ok with it. It isn't said that I would have been able to import it to my country.
 
As others have said, polishing a handgun is a long-practiced art, more than a science.
It is a highly developed skill.
It does require practice and ability.

In the 1980s Colt had to introduce a new model variation on one of their .357 Magnum revolvers with a lesser-quality non-polished finish because they didn't have enough polishers left during a worker strike. They knew they couldn't just let anybody at the plant do the polishing, that's a job for a specialist.

Other makers now sell un-polished "roughly" finished bead-blasted/blued revolvers at much lower prices than their polished counterparts. They can do that because polishing correctly takes up more time on each gun, and time means money. No polish means less time and a lower price.

You won't be able to get the correct even polish that a professional will do. You'll have some out-of-rounds on your barrel. You'll almost certainly blur barrel stampings.
You very simply don't understand how important skill is in doing this, and it's not as easy as you think it is.

You'll be able to polish it, yes, but it won't match the rest of the gun in quality & it won't look as nice as a professional would make it.

Each manufacturer that turns out a polished blue has dedicated polishers who can do it right.
You can't just buy a buffing wheel & expect to achieve good results on your own. :)

Trying to polish & cold blue the new barrel yourself will not match the rest of the gun, but if you don't care about anything but "shiny black", that may not be important to you.

If you want it to look "right", it should be.
If you just want to shoot the gun & don't care what it looks like, then you may be happy with the results.
You'll already be ending up with a mis-matched barrel & frame anyway, since the replacement barrel won't have the gold.

I'm sorry, I know English isn't your language, but I still don't understand what you're saying about a polygonal barrel.
Do you mean you had a custom barrel with polygonal rifling made for this gun?
Denis
 
@ DPris

Hm... Maybe I ask my gunsmith what a professional polishing would cost exactly.

Do you mean you had a custom barrel with polygonal rifling made for this gun?
Denis
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Yes, I mean exactly this =)
 
Wow.
That had to be expensive.

Did you ever check to see if there's a European distributor that could have gotten you a newer blued Smith & Wesson to shoot?

You are putting a lot of effort & money into your project, and it wouldn't be considered worth it here in the US.
I know your situation is different there, but I can't help thinking there would have been an easier way that would have ended up better.

Why did your gunsmith use polygonal rifling in a .44 Magnum barrel? I'm curious about that choice.
What do you plan to shoot in it?
Denis
 
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