BL-C (2) powder for 308 Win.

C

Cola308

New member
I am looking for info on whether this is a reliable powder for 308. Is it temperature sensitive and do you get good groups at 100 yds with it. I am working on a good load for 308 deer hunting "Whitetail".
 
If you do some research, you will learn this is a canister grade (tighter burn rate tolerance than bulk grade) version of Western Cannon series WC846 made by the St. Marks plant in Florida. WC846 was developed specifically form M80 ball in the 7.62 NATO cartridge, which was marketed to the public as .308 Winchester after its initial development. There are some differences in the shapes of chambers used by the civilian and military for their versions of this cartridge, but that powder and a 147 grain bullet were the standard back then.

The warnings are that like other older ball powder formulations, this one is hard to light up. In 1989 CCI reformulated their magnum rifle primers specifically to get better, more consistent ignition with this type of powder, so a CCI #250 primer would be appropriate to use with it, even though the .308 is not a magnum cartridge. They put the same amount of the same priming formula into CCI #34 primers. The difference it that the latter have their sensitivity reduced to military specifications by altering the primer anvil. This is done for self-loading military rifles with floating firing pins, as it better resists slamfires. However, getting any primer properly and fully seated matters more than the primer type in that regard.

While this powder is a good choice for 150 grain weight range bullets in the M14/M1A rifles for which it was designed, it is a good choice for military accuracy, which is not very demanding by target shooting standards, except for snipers. This powder is not used in their sniper ammo at this point in time. IMR 4064 with an added flash suppressant is. If you want target accuracy, up to 600 yards the 168 Grain MatchKing bullet and 4064 or, for longer ranges, the 175 grain MatchKing bullet and 4064 are better choices. Varget is another good one for target loads.

However, for your stated purpose of going after Whitetails in the woods in the Eastern half of the country, you're not doing long range shooting and you'll be using hunting bullets rather than match bullets. For that purpose, BL-C(2) will work just fine. Just get the right primers. That matters even more when temperatures get lower if you go where it is cold. If you are using a bolt gun, Federal 215 primers are another good choice.
 
I strictly use BL-C(2) for my hunting 308 and Enfield's, one 308 and one 303. Works great as long as your loads are consistent. I've used 150, 174, 180 and 200 grain copper bullets. Large rifle primers are fine but I use large rifle magnum primers to get the best burn. What temp swings are you talking about that you think would make a big difference?
 
The temp swings are noted by target shooters. Some vertical stringing, especially on 600 yard targets as the day warms up. If he's in woods in the eastern part of this country he's unlikely to shoot deer at over 100 yards just because it's hard to get clear line of sight that great. Way too short to be a problem. Indeed, Having used similar powder in the high desert in Arizona with warm days and chilly nights for training classes, I think if you follow Jeff Cooper's advice to zero at 200 yards (or about two inches high at 100 yards), you will able to treat any deer out to about 230 yards as being inside a 4" your point blank impact circle and not even have to adjust your sights or point of aim.
 
So BL-C (2) with CCI 250 primer will make a good load for whitetail. I also see 4064 was mentioned would this be a better powder for my hunting loads instead of BL-C (2)?
 
I loaded BL-C(2) for my .308 using 150 PSP loads for hunting. I used standard Remington primers before I learned of the need for magnum primers. While I've had no problems I just shot up the last of my loaded rounds and I'm going to re-develop my loads using magnum primers, just to be on the safe side.

I've had good velocity and very acceptable accuracy out to 200 yards with common hunting bullets.
 
I shoot a Remington 788 and with 150 GR. Remington Core Lokt bullets and it shoots 1/2 inch groups at 100 yrds. But just want to reload because I would like to do a lot more shooting on the range but want to stick with hunting loads. Looking for the best powder match up for 308 and noticed those powders in the Hornady Manual so scoping those out CFE 233, BL-C (2), and IMR 4064 would like to go with the best of the three.
 
What is your definition of better or best as it relates to the application ? I see a lot of times best means more velocity when it comes to hunting loads because of the increased terminal ballistics . Where in my type of shooting ( target shooting ) I'm more then willing to give up some velocity for "better" accuracy . So the powder that gives me better accuracy is what I consider best . While a hunter may say more velocity with acceptable accuracy is best .

The slightly faster powders of Varget , IMR 4064 & 8208xbr , AR-comp will likely give you better accuracy at slightly lower velocities with no temperature sensitivities . While CFE-223 , BLC-2 , will likely give you a little more velocity with acceptable accuracy . I've heard CFE-223 is not very temp stable and have no info on BLC-2 as it relates to temperature stability .
 
Quote"What is your definition of better or best as it relates to the application ?" end quote

I guess my definition would be pertaining to accuracy with no temperature sensitivities and it seems IMR 4064 is the powder I should be considering, I have a pound of IMR 4064 and 2 pounds of IMR 4350 but was looking to buy another pound and was thinking one of these CFE-223 or BLC-2 since they were mentioned in the Hornady Manual. But whitetail deer hunting is my main objective and wanted to tailor my powders around hunting. I want to reload for 308 and 7mm08.
 
When developing a hunting load, the weights I assign to load evaluation are different. First, the most hard hitting hunting bullets have mediocre ballistics. Sure some hunting bullets like the ELD'x have decent ballistics, but they won't penetrate like a partition or retain the weight of a triple shock or weldcore. But, with those bullets you are usually doing well at MOA to 1.5 MOA. Then, velocity is important because it not only is it required for some bullets to perform, usually you don't know the exact range of your game and velocity helps minimize this problem with a longer maximum point blank range.

So with all that said, for ELK I use a 200 gr Nosler Accubond in a .300wm around 3000 fps.
For deer, here in Mississippi where blood tracking is very difficult and I want a nearly instant kill, I use 178 gr ELD- X pushed by 4064 out of an AR-10 at 2500 fps 16.125" barrel....(that brass won't last long btw).

Although, this year I will be using a 45-70 and 405 gr cast gas checks :)

Anyway, BL-C would be a great 150 gr choice, but make sure if you develop the load in the summer, you load high in the accuracy node so that when the temps go down during hunting season, you stay within the accuracy node if the velocity falls
 
I shoot a Remington 788 and with 150 GR. Remington Core Lokt bullets and it shoots 1/2 inch groups at 100 yrds. But just want to reload because I would like to do a lot more shooting on the range but want to stick with hunting loads. Looking for the best powder match up for 308 and noticed those powders in the Hornady Manual so scoping those out CFE 233, BL-C (2), and IMR 4064 would like to go with the best of the three.
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Back in the day they were all hunting powders (grin). Still are.

Get the temp sensitivity thing out of your brain.

I will note the caveat, but for hunting purposes, its a non issue. Accuracy wise, under 400 yards, 1.5 inches is more than good enough for dear. Keep in mind, its not a bench shot (supported if possible l). You are not going for the X spot (yet to see a critter with an X on it) but the lungs and hopefully heart (quick kill)

Caveat: If you load up a really hot load when the temperature is very cool (40) of even cold (20) then if you shoot that load at 80 degrees, you may show pressure signs. It won't blow up the gun, you might get a sticky bolt.

Reality is, you are best loading to something above mid point but below maximum. Somewhere in there is the best accuracy and you are still in good shape regardless of temperatures. Dead on at 200 yards covers the situation pretty well.

If you want to experiment, BLC2 is fine, you don't have to, the two powders you have are plenty good.

I do experiment a lot but I am a pure bench rest shooter these days and I am after those tiny groups.

When I was hunting, my rifle was good for 1.5 inches. The only shot I missed was one I did not trust my ballistics and over compensated.

Two were at 250 yards, maybe a bit shorter on the one and pushing 300 on the other.

Both were solid lung shots, both went 20 feet and dropped.

note: Both were rested shots, one over a hood (yea I took liberties on that one) - the other was a kneeling braced shot.

always try to have a supported shot, that can make a huge difference. I would have taken off hand shots if I had to, I didn't have to and did not.

Bullet choices, distance and velocity are issues that should be explored for the best possible outcome at the ranges you shoot and the type of animal.

Mississippi listed a couple, that is the data you want to explore and is far more relevant than temperature sensitivity
 
BL-C(2) has been used for a long time with great results. I would not worry about temp changes at hunting yardage. But if you already have the other powder why not just use that? A 1/2" group at 100 yards is sub MOA so it seems you are chasing your tail here. What yardage will you be shooting the most at the range? FYI you will get just as many different opinions as posts for powder use.
 
As was said, it was created with that cartridge in mind. Follow the recommendations. You may find that it works well enough to not look any farther.

I use it with cast 180 30-06.
 
Cola308,

As Mississippi said, you want to find your maximum load in hot conditions and I'll emphasize, with the barrel well-warmed up by several previous rounds with no more than about 30 seconds between shots. This is to be sure you don't create a load that can get you into high pressure conditions conditions.

Temperature sensitivity is tolerable for hunting ammo as long as it doesn't cause your POI to shift radically due to the barrel getting of a sweet spot and into a muzzle swing. So test it. Run several rounds through your gun with ten of fifteen second spacing to get it warm. The put a round in the chamber and let it sit for a minute and shoot it on paper. Shoot a couple more that way to get a crude group. Then let the gun cool for fifteen minutes. Keep three rounds in an insulated box with ice in it. Shoot each of these, allowing time for the barrel to cool between shots. Se how much different the POI is.
 
Or, since it's the dead of summer, take a half dozen in an icy cold cooler of coke, or even a bit of dry ice, and get that case cold clear the bone. Take another group and lay them out in a black pan at noon and leave them until they are ready to sizzle.

I'd just go through the standard drill of warm barrel and firing every two or three minutes, with the rounds fired as soon as you pull them from temperature storage.

This is going to tell you more about the actual temperature sensitivity of the powder in situ. There is still a lot to learn about how the barrel responds.
 
When I deer hunt I only shoot one round through a cold barrel. I very seldom ever miss when deer hunting, never has been a need for a second shot. I have killed between one and five deer every year for more than 50 years. Now that I moved in to old age I only shoot one or two deer a year. I probably will still use Remington core lokt bullets for hunting they 1/2 inch group with my rifle but do want to reload to shoot more on the range but want to reload as if it will be my hunting round. If these powders are temperature sensitive to the point of being high pressure then maybe I need to stay with IMR 4064. My primary rife is 308 but I will be loading for 7mm08 also shooting it for the fun of it. The only powder I ever loaded 308 with was IMR 4064 43 gr. over a 150gr BTSP Speer bullets. I have now purchased Hornady bullets in 308 150gr SP and 7mm08 139gr BTSP.

I pulled a 150gr Reminton Core Lokt to see what type bullet they were using it is a soft point Spire Point so that is why I bought Hornady SP. Believing my rifle likes SP better than BTSP because my reloads do not match the accuracy of the Core Lokt.
 
The testing UN described was not to see how well multiple shots work but to mimic hot and cold conditions on the same day . It's not to often you can test your loads at 90*+ as well as below freezing on the same day .

The point is that if you work your load up in 20* weather then hunt when it's 90* . A temp sensitive powder will likely shoot different at those two temperatures . Then if you had to take a second shot now with that second round cooking in the hot chamber . That max charge/pressure load you had at 20* is going to be WAY over max pressure if not on the first shot at 90* but most certainly will be if you fire a second round from the hot chamber .

Or at least that's what I understand them to mean . Corrections are welcome .
 
Yes Metal God that is what Nick and I were getting at.

For instance: My brother is going antelope hunting in new Mexico this weekend with his .270. his load uses 130 gr SST's and IMR 4350.

His load will probably perform different at 10 Degrees in northern Nebraska where he lives and hunts deer than in New Mexico in August.

Here's what happened to me along these lines:
I developed a load for my .338 Lapua magnum using RL 25 and 285 gr hornady BTHP's. The load was developed in March in Kansas when I was in graduate school. Temperature around 45 degrees during that month. The
Load generated bugholes at 200 yards and a consistent 3/4 moa at 500 yards.(as far as I had tested it)

That June I took it out and on the 2nd shot I had to muscle the bolt open. 3rd shot required a cleaning rod.

I let the barrel cool in the shade and broke out the chronograph. Shot a 4th and final shot with another heavy bolt and found that it was almost 80fps faster than the 2850 I was getting in March. I switched to Retumbo and never had that problem again.

Anyway, my point is, with a temperature sensitive powder, a great load can become not so great if conditions change from when it was developed.

On the other hand, if 1.5 - 2.5 MOA is ok, then you can often just pick a load that works in hot weather and just live with how it shoots.....or make a hot and cold weather load.
 
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I no longer hunt if it is 35 degree F. or below nor do I hunt if the temperature is above 85 degrees F. Do not like setting in a cold stand nor cleaning deer in real hot weather.
 
I no longer hunt if it is 35 degree F. or below nor do I hunt if the temperature is above 85 degrees F. Do not like setting in a cold stand nor cleaning deer in real hot weather.
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Then use whatever powder works best for your gun. There is no need for long range max quality advice here. Reloading should be able to match store bought loads easily if done consistently.
 
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