Bird of prey vs. deer
- Thread starter fisherman66
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fisherman66
New member
I believe it's a Roe Deer.
Fat White Boy
New member
Yeah, I'd say golden eagle, too. I was chukar hunting up in Nevada a few years ago. I thought I saw a small bear on the side of a hill. It was an adult golden eagle. Huge sonuvagun. I see now how they can carry off lambs and goats. It looked like it had the cargo capacity of a small airliner.
fisherman66
New member
I believe this video was shot in the middle east (Turkey maybe). They have been using predatory birds in this fashion for a very long time. Odd what some people find offensive. This strikes me as very fair chase. Think of the discipline it takes to train a golden eagle; to mold nature to pit itself against it's own wildness. I find this much more elegant than propping a rifle out of a windowed outhouse.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Ever seen a hawk strike a bird? They close their claws into fists, and strike with both together. Breaks bones.
The bug'n'bunny biologists say that a big eagle can lift not much over four pounds.
Art
The bug'n'bunny biologists say that a big eagle can lift not much over four pounds.
Art
FirstFreedom
Moderator
agree with fish66... but that ain't no full sized deer (whitetail, anyhow). I'm sure those birds are strong, but adult deer are VERY strong, and aren't going to be taken down by ANY bird.
I'm fairly certain (85-90% so) that the bird of prey is a golden eagle, and that that hunt is taking place either in Mongolia or possibly Kyrgyzstan on the smaller gazelle type ruminants they have there. The mongolian gazelle is fairly small. Being around 50-70lbs live weight.
Then again, a lot of the deer that are shot down in Alabama/Lousiana way I'd call 'fawns' myself. I've seen average 'live' weights for Alabama deer in overpopulated areas that fall into the 65-70lb category for a 3 year old deer. Compare that to Colorado and Wyoming where an 'average' white tail comes in at 150-175lbs.
So be rather careful when disparaging the possible 'size' of that animal, as it probably isn't all that much smaller than a lot of the deer that get harvested in the southern US.
And as for 'full grown deer' not being able to be taken down by a bird... Well I've seen a golden eagle do a full out strike on a lamed mulie doe (broken foreleg, was waiting for the game warden to show up), and I can tell you for a fact that given a deer that ain't moving and a hungry enough eagle, you get a dead deer.
Then again, a lot of the deer that are shot down in Alabama/Lousiana way I'd call 'fawns' myself. I've seen average 'live' weights for Alabama deer in overpopulated areas that fall into the 65-70lb category for a 3 year old deer. Compare that to Colorado and Wyoming where an 'average' white tail comes in at 150-175lbs.
So be rather careful when disparaging the possible 'size' of that animal, as it probably isn't all that much smaller than a lot of the deer that get harvested in the southern US.
And as for 'full grown deer' not being able to be taken down by a bird... Well I've seen a golden eagle do a full out strike on a lamed mulie doe (broken foreleg, was waiting for the game warden to show up), and I can tell you for a fact that given a deer that ain't moving and a hungry enough eagle, you get a dead deer.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
In all honesty, although I certaintly don't TRY for fawns, and have never killed one, I do not consider killing a fawn to be unethical or off-limits necessarily...
To me, the deer you DO try to cull/take are:
-Big Bucks (trophy)
-Big Mature fawn-less does near the end of their breeding lives
-Cull Bucks (one antler or deformed antlers)
What you DON'T kill are:
-Small Bucks or Medium sized Bucks
-Does with Fawn(s) - the fawns need momma to help them survive, and that doe with fawns is a proven fertile breeder.
-Young does without fawns but which are of fawn-bearing age and are old enough to fight off coyotes.
In the gray area between the two Do's and Don'ts are fawns themselves. Since they might not live to child rearing age (if a doe) anyway, due to coyotes, pigs, bobcats, etc., then it's not so bad taking one, and they are in fact good meat animals to take.
To me, the deer you DO try to cull/take are:
-Big Bucks (trophy)
-Big Mature fawn-less does near the end of their breeding lives
-Cull Bucks (one antler or deformed antlers)
What you DON'T kill are:
-Small Bucks or Medium sized Bucks
-Does with Fawn(s) - the fawns need momma to help them survive, and that doe with fawns is a proven fertile breeder.
-Young does without fawns but which are of fawn-bearing age and are old enough to fight off coyotes.
In the gray area between the two Do's and Don'ts are fawns themselves. Since they might not live to child rearing age (if a doe) anyway, due to coyotes, pigs, bobcats, etc., then it's not so bad taking one, and they are in fact good meat animals to take.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
One's ethics and morals are in part a function of what you learn when growing up, inculcated by your parents and peers; and in part what you learn later on.
Americans seem to be more judgemental than folks from other countries, though we're not completely alone in this. You can see it in this forum on certain subjects; hunting deer with dogs is one. Those who grow up with it see it as natural; others go into hysterics against it because it's foreign to them. I've travelled a lot through some twenty countries, and I learned early on that, "When in Rome, do as Romans do," is a good way to avoid trouble. The obvious alternative is don't go to Rome...
One thing to remember is that when hunting with a raptor, the raptor will make the final decision of whether or not to strike. Whether the target animal is the fawn of a larger species or a mature animal of a smaller species is beside the point; it's not really something for us to judge, I think: It's the bird's choice.
Art
Americans seem to be more judgemental than folks from other countries, though we're not completely alone in this. You can see it in this forum on certain subjects; hunting deer with dogs is one. Those who grow up with it see it as natural; others go into hysterics against it because it's foreign to them. I've travelled a lot through some twenty countries, and I learned early on that, "When in Rome, do as Romans do," is a good way to avoid trouble. The obvious alternative is don't go to Rome...
One thing to remember is that when hunting with a raptor, the raptor will make the final decision of whether or not to strike. Whether the target animal is the fawn of a larger species or a mature animal of a smaller species is beside the point; it's not really something for us to judge, I think: It's the bird's choice.
Art
I've never seen a bird do that either can he pick up small children?FirstFreedom
Moderator
I'm quite sure than many a homo sapiens baby has become eagle food over the millenia, if mom is not guarding closely.
On killing cute little animals....anyone seen the scene in "Cold Mountain" when the lead character is on his journey and comes across the old lady who cares for him? She is self-sufficient with her many cute little goats... The line is something like, "Good for milk, companionship, and sometimes, meat", while she caresses one goat in her arms, while slicing its jugular. Then they flash forward to later on and they are both eating goat's meat at dinner. Now that's different because it's survival, whereas we don't need to kill any animal to survive, let alone a fawn, but it just shows Art's point, that morals and standards which are perhaps repugnant to some are quite standard and acceptable to other cultures and subcultures, in our time and times past.
On killing cute little animals....anyone seen the scene in "Cold Mountain" when the lead character is on his journey and comes across the old lady who cares for him? She is self-sufficient with her many cute little goats... The line is something like, "Good for milk, companionship, and sometimes, meat", while she caresses one goat in her arms, while slicing its jugular. Then they flash forward to later on and they are both eating goat's meat at dinner. Now that's different because it's survival, whereas we don't need to kill any animal to survive, let alone a fawn, but it just shows Art's point, that morals and standards which are perhaps repugnant to some are quite standard and acceptable to other cultures and subcultures, in our time and times past.
fisherman66
New member
I ain't planning on eatin' tofu fer protein. Or do you mean we have the ability to get someone else to do the killin for us? Ever read The Jungle?