Bin Laden Gets a Pass from Pakistan

And then we might not get our Afghan pipeline...(oops, what afghan pipeline, that's wasn't in the NEWS!)
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Because lible can be prosecuted. The pipeline you speak of was not backed by Bush, but by Clinton. Bush backed a plan to route the pipeline under the Caspian Sea, thus avoiding the troubled region. You my friend, have fallen victim to the falsehoods of mickey morre and his lackeys. Read it in Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man.

The notion that anyone in the Bin Laden family has anything to do with Osama is pure unmitigated bunk and I will thank you not to propagate it here. He was long ago dis-owned by his family. At this point I must point out that an Arab family dis-ownment is a bit differnet than Suzzy Mae getting dis-owned by daddy for getting knocked up. Furthermore, Osama has himself declared that moderate Muslmis that support the west in any way or allow the west to build military bases are worthy of only death. The bin Laden familiy has several contracts to build military bases in Saudi Arabia, so...it is reasonable to assume that they don't send each other Ramadhan cards.

he might not have had squat to do with 9/11.
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Because claiming responsibility for that act allowed him to live out his childhood fantasy of living in a different cave every night.:rolleyes:

But good thing all I've got are hunches...
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No, you have discredited bunk.

A...C...B

I'm waiting for the Bush cheering squad to be told what to think about this...I'm curious (in a morbid sorta way) to hear the spin.
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GS27,
Not a cheering squad, and I respect you too much to tell you what to think. Things change, people forget. This is just Pakistans way of not being a target for extremist Muslims. I don't blame them.
 
Eh, we do dirty deals all the time. I'm sure we could easily just carpet bomb the Al-Qaeda area and get rid of a good chunk of the problem, but how do you run a never-ending game if you put it into sudden death? Is it wrong? Maybe, but the alternative is not having a face to rally the people against. No offense to anyone but I always love that saying from Men In Black, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, and dangerous critters, kid."

Here's the rub, we trained and funded Bin Laden in the 80's to fight the Soviets. We funded Saddam roughly the same time to fight the Iranians. All of those people were our enemies more or less. Even the people on our payroll are merely lesser foes we used to fight our low-intesity conflicts. That's the nature of war, always has been, always will be. War is ugly, but sometimes the world doesn't need beauty. Though I wish more people would wake up and realize what we are doing to ourselves before we jump into these conflicts. A lot of good men and women I know are now pushing up daisies for what they believe to be a pure and good cause. Maybe it's the latter, but it sure as hell ain't the former.

Clinton also had bombing campaigns in Iraq a good chunk of his tenure. He wasn't very peaceful either, he just was better at not having that stupid cowboy machismo about it like Bush. I honestly have disdain for both of them but one went about his campaigns with more finesse.

I don't blame the Pakis either, to them this is just another humiliation. Not that I really like Pakistan, mind you, but I can see exactly where they're coming from.
 
"Clinton also had bombing campaigns in Iraq a good chunk of his tenure. He wasn't very peaceful either, he just was better at not having that stupid cowboy machismo about it like Bush. I honestly have disdain for both of them but one went about his campaigns with more finesse."

"Hey Monica - don't sweat the publicity - I'll bomb an aspirin factory in the Sudan" - the master of "finesse warfare"...

LOL! Yeah dropping an egg on the Chinese embassy in Kosovo showed a lot of finesse.
Rule numero uno in War is "Don't PO people you don't want involved".

Speaking of Kosovo - ever wonder exactly what in the hell we (the US) were doing getting involved in that mess in the first place?
It all boiled down to the 49 sorties flown by the B-2's from Whiteman AFB in Mo.
After all if you're going to have a "all weather long range bomber/combat airrcraft" that costs to the tune of $1.5 Billion apiece give or take,,,the damn thing better work in all weather conditions and in actual combat right?
Problem here is the 49 *acid test* sorties were neither all weather or actual combat. The kind of test under fire that oook place is as open to questions about relevance as,,,well,, as the supposed shooting of a bunch of goats...

Oh yeah who can ever forget that other little bit of "finesse" Slick pulled. Even while NATO was taking some global heat about the internationally illegal use of DU munitioins during the Gulf War,,the master of finesse lobbed about 31,000 rounds of the stuff in Bosnia/Kosovo. 6 Italian soldiers ended up dying from "Balkan syndrome"...,,but hey,,it's not like it's all that big of a deal since they're Italians right? (oops - they're our "friends" - sorry 'bout that)

Man - it seems like the only ones safe during the *master of finesse warfare's" campaigns are the people he's supposed to be fighting. It was downright dangerous to be neutral or friendly to that clown.

Ohh ohh wait,,, I forgot about the USS Cole.

Yeah lot's of finesse there. Cut the budget so deep that you can't supply ammunition to our own even when they operate in unfriendly ports. Give them orders not to do anything even when threatened.

I guess I have to amend what I said above to include "our own" along with our friends and neutrals as being more in harm's way that our supposed enemies.

Sorry to jump all over that,,,but Clinton was simply a buffoon and a glory seeker. At least W is a "roll up your sleeves and do a dirty job that needs done and the heck with what people say about you" type.
 
Yeessir! Bush rolled up his sleeves and brought this nation almost to it's knees.War,illegals,unemployment,medical care,etc.All messed up now.That's what I call "doing something".
 
ahh yes, the "afghanistan pipeline"

i heard afghanistan is now cranking out a 30% surplus of the world's opium supply (according to CNN); looks like we're gonna have to send troops over there again, to, umm, take down insurgents.

CIA once admitted on the record, to having been involved with heroin importation... hmm...
 
I worked at a company this summer where a lot of the guys were ex-military. Two of them tried convincing me Bin Laden is a CIA operative and that is why he hasn't been killed, as in he's too valuable an asset to just bomb into oblivion. Or maybe they just want him alive so they feds can make him squeal and take down his terror network from the inside.

There are so many scenarios possible and all equally unlikely so why bother conjecturing?
 
I think it's easier to believe he's a rogue terrorist hiding out in the mountains somewhere in Pakistan, Building 7 really did collapse because it was damaged from the other buildings, and that Tim McVeigh was the one who destroyed the federal building in OKC.

lol
 
Musharraf is the best friend we have had in that part of the world in recent history. Going after bin laden in that part of the country with enough force to do the job could be a death sentance for our buddy, the benevolent dictator. Pakistan is held together by fragile alliances and a major military campaign could easily spark off a civil war. This could lead to somebody much worse in control of their nukes.

Best to leave this situation be and do what ever low-key joint operations we can put together with the Pakistani military without destabilizing the whole dang region.

Anyone who suggests Pakistan would be willing to arm terrorists with nuclear weapons is either totally paraniod or has a complete lack of understanding of the region. Probably both. Pakistan needs all of it's nukes to hold off an Indian offensive, which is likely to happen at some point...
 
that's a good point. they'll want to keep their nukes to maintain the standoff they have with India in the Kashmir region
 
Wasn't the Pakistani head of its nuclear program, the major source of info for the rest of the lunatics' own nuke programs?

You have the risk of a rogue (or supposedly rogue) player exporting something deadly.
 
oldbillthundercheif...

Pakistan isn't our best friend more so than reluctant ally, and they are very much a powder keg waiting to go off. Don't know how a situation like that could be taken care of, it's quite a mess we've gotten ourselves into. Terrorists with nukes... Sum of All Fears manifests.


Epyon
 
Hal,

And Bush is an even bigger buffoon and a religious whore who uses religion to further his agenda. Bush bombed 2 pakistani homes and killed tons of women and children. Really good of him. How many of our soldiers are dead for a selfish war? Too many. How many kids has Bush killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in all his Secret CIA prisons? Bush is worse than Clinton. Clinton was bad, but Clinton wasn't stupid like Bush. Clinton didn't say stupid **** like, "Bring them on, I'm gonna stir up crap with some of the world's strongest military forces because I'm an AMERIKAN and I can! And then we'll wonder why other countries despise us when we step not only on their toes, but their feet and their nuts."

Sure Clinton screwed up, but he did it better than Bush.
 
"Yeessir! Bush rolled up his sleeves and brought this nation almost to it's knees.War,illegals,unemployment,medical care,etc.All messed up now.That's what I call "doing something"."

Umm -
Re:War. Clinton, Bush I, Carter, Nixon, Johnson, JFK, Ike, Truman - just to name a few. Bush doesn't have a lock on getting the US involved in military actions.

Re: Illegals. Again, the problem with illegal's predates the Bush administration by several decades. President Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to illegal immigrants (4 million) when he signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

Re: Medical Care. It wasn't first lady Bush that was put in charge of medical care,,IIRC that went to the former first lady,,,Hillary Clinton. Bush also had nothing to do with Medicare/Medicaid or even the latest atrocity of .gov - HIPPA. If anything Bush has inherited these nightmares from previous administartions.

Re: Unemployment. Well, there you might have something...but not at all what you think you have.. Unemployment is at a 36 year low. The 4.1% figure posted in May of this year was the lowest since 1970.

As an FYI here's the rates for 1982 thru 2005
Nixon/Ford
1968 3.6
1969 3.5
1970 4.9
1971 5.9
1972 5.6
1973 4.9
1974 5.6
1975 8.5
Avg = 5.31

Carter:
1976 7.7
1977 7.1
1978 6.1
1979 5.8
Avg = 6.65

Reagan:
1980 7.1
1981 7.6
1982 9.7
1983 9.6
1984 7.5
1985 7.2
1986 7.0
1987 6.2
Avg = 7.73

Bush I:
1988 5.5
1989 5.3
1990 5.6
1991 6.8
Avg = 5.8

Clinton:
1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2
Avg = 5.6

Bush:
2000 4.0
2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0
2004 5.5
2005 5.1
(2006 to date = 4.6)
Avg = 5.18 for all years excluding 2006 to date.
(source - US Dept of Labor) http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

So - as you can see - unemployment under Bush has averaged lower overall than under Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter or Nixon/Ford.
So please don't spout nonsense.

RE: "tons of women and children" - that's a bit childish. Please come back with some facts and figures instead of schoolyard level hype.
 
"We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead." Donald Rumsfeld
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LMAO, badbod, sure glad Rummy cleared that up for us! :)

Esquire B, can you elaborate some more on what you're saying?
 
My take is we got close in Tora Bora and if you read between the lines last year in July and we lost a bunch of special forces guys (see links, I don't see the remains of the Taliban being this tough on our best guys, something was up). I believe he is still alive and like the reports say, hunging the border. If the American Forces get too close, he goes into Pakistan, if the Pak forces get too close he goes into back Afghan territory. Problem is thanks to Carter, Clinton and the end of the cold war, we don't have any more good spys on the ground or assassins to send in to kill him, we got to relly on other countries or paid stooges. Clinton pushed the CIA into high tech solutions and we are dealing with primative people. No doubt Musharraff is a dictator, but he is more friendly to the US than anyone else in Pakistan. He can't go all out into that territory to fight his own people who are hiding Bin Laden without starting a civil war. Don't be so quick to judge Pakistan, we patrol our own borders and can't keep millions of illegals out. Also there are small pockets of High crime urban areas in america where if a beloved criminal took refuge, and the full force of federal government entered the area to arrest him in the name of some foriegn country, rioting or civil war would break out. Take the LA riots and times that by 1,000 and you got Pakistan.

The Idea is for Bin Laden to come out of hiding, let him think Pakistan don't care, and US is more concerned about Iran and Iraq. If he feels unwanted or irrevelant, he'll get sloppy, or pop his head out and that is how he will finally be discovered and caught.
 
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hey hal

are your figures there adjusted according to population? otherwise, your figures are moot.

"Please note that annual averages are only available for unadjusted (not seasonally adjusted) data."

trying to pass off percentages as some credible evidence (when not considering overall pop.) is like a commercial claiming "4 out of 5 doctors prefer.."
 
i've wondered lately what would H.S.TRUMAN or IKE would have done 5 years ago when the worst attack ever on U.S. soil was pulled off so slickly..... i'm thinkin either one of em would have been sending some nukes into some caves over there in good ole pakistan................... good thing i wasn't in charge... i'd have created some self lighting glass dance froors over there in the mideast......................it's been 5 years and it seems everyone is sitting on their hands or collecting lots of money from the war on terror..............:mad: :mad:
 
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